63 // Ghosts and Haunting with Room Editor Ellen Chang-Richardson

SPEAKERS:

Ellen Chang-Richardson, Rachel Thompson, Laurel Perry

Rachel Thompson 00:01

Welcome luminous writers to the Write, Publish and Shine podcast. I am your host, author and literary magazine editor Rachel Thompson. This podcast explores how to write and share your brilliant writing with the world. In each episode, we delve into specifics on how to polish and prepare your writing for publication, and the journey from emerging writer to publish author.

00:27

Hello, luminous writer!

00:28

In this episode, it is my delight to talk about Room magazine, the journal that got me started on many paths back when I joined the collective in 2010. I’ve worked there in different capacities and levels of engagement, was briefly the managing editor when we were really just redefining this role, and gladly passed that mantle along to the brilliant and talented folks who held the role after me, including our current Managing Editor, Shristi Uprety, who we mention fondly in this episode because Shristi is incredible in the role.

01:04

And by us, I mean, Ellen Chang-Richardson and I both speak as editorial collective members at Room, and as editors of the upcoming issue of Room’s Ghosts issue. That is issue number 46.3, if you’re counting. And submissions are due on January 5, 2023, which is very soon! Even as of this recording.

01:27

So, here is our call for submissions:

01:30

Come haunt us. Room seeks writers of marginalized genders for poems full of folklore, creative nonfiction on rattling encounters, transient fiction, and other such spirited words. Send us writing and visual art that is acutely aware of the apparitions around us. Show us the specters, the relationships with revenants, the ancestries of time and place, the imprints, and the echoes. We want your best work in any genre, work that breaks with traditional form, for Room issue 46.3, Ghosts, edited by Rachel Thompson, Ellen Chang-Richardson, Melissa Barrientos, and Lena Belova.

02:15

By the way, the volume number, 46, roughly represents each year Room published. We missed a couple of years in there, but suffice to say, this is a magazine with staying power and a strong mission that has evolved and expanded since it launched in 1975.

02:33

Another thing to note is that by marginalized genders, we include women (trans and cis), trans men, non-binary, and Two-Spirit people.

02:41

Ellen and I get a little into how things work behind the scenes at Room, and how we are many people, all rolling up our sleeves to create space in literature, art, and feminism.

02:48

But what you really want to listen for is what we want to see in your submissions to our Ghosts issue. Ellen and I share our relationship to the subject of Ghosts and what we think the theme is about—and also how we want you, writers who submit to the issue, to surprise, us with new interpretations of the theme, too.

03:14

This episode was recorded live on Zoom in front of writers from my writing community, called Writerly Love. So, you will hear us also answer their questions toward the end of our discussion.

03:28

This is my conversation with my wonderful colleague, Ellen Chang-Richardson about Room 46.3, Ghosts…

03:36

Thank you to Ellen Chang-Richardson for joining me to talk about the issue of Rooms that were already in the process of pre-stages editing. It’s already been great, right? I mean, we’re just having a great time working on this issue. And it is widely started. And we haven’t even really looked at Submissions yet.

Ellen Chang-Richardson 03:57

Yeah, well, first off, thanks for having me, Rachel. It has been really fun so far. It’s great to work with each other in this capacity. I think a really neat thing for me is that we’re approaching the editing of this issue with a very collaborative slant. So, I like that.

Rachel Thompson 04:12

That suits both of us, I guess. And we’re going to talk a little bit about our backgrounds in terms of coming to this issue. So, we’re just going to jump into our questions.

04:22

The first one, I wanted to ask, why are we doing this issue and why does it raise our spirits, Ellen?

Ellen Chang-Richardson 04:30

You go first, Rachel.

Rachel Thompson 04:34

Yeah, sure. Okay. I think for me, just in my editorial journey with Room which I joined the collective 11 years ago now, almost 12 years ago. And the first issue I ever edited for Room was in a period where I was like, grieving don’t to bring down the house but I was like intensely grieving, and I’ve created an issue called mythology of loss because it was like this way of reaching out to other Grievers out there, I wasn’t able to write at the time and I wanted to hear their stories and feel like it was possible to even write after really momentous kind of grief events, and losses. But also, I see this as an echo of kind of like, responding- And really, this is a person like, I don’t think anybody who’s been reading Room is going to necessarily notice that, but for me personally, it’s like an echo of that. And then it also brings in the strange, the uncanny, a little bit more fun to it, but also has that idea of being haunted and the haunting that is part of the grief experience.

Ellen Chang-Richardson 05:39

I think in my answer, I’m going to help myself a little bit and share with listeners a little bit of insight or insight into what happens with like editorial collectors and boards. This issue 46.3 was actually one that I was originally signed on to lead at it. And then I had way too much going on in my life. And I reached out to our Managing Editor Shristi, who is incredible. And I said, Shristi, I’m so sorry, but I cannot do this, like too much going on, I said yes to too many projects, and I am learning to put my mental health first. So, I need to back off. I’m so, so sorry. And she was like it is okay. Also, congratulations. Tell me more about what’s going on. And I was like, Shristi, I’m literally like screwing you right now. But you’re congratulating me at the same time, I love you so much.

06:26

So, long story short, Rachel stepped into the lead editor role, and was looking for an assistant editor. And then I saw the theme that Rachel had pitched for this issue. And I’m like, I want to do it.

Rachel Thompson 06:39

If I recall that was live in a meeting. So, it was like a very impulse, okay, me, I’m going to do it.

Ellen Chang-Richardson 06:40

Like, I’m just going to plug my name into the production board I’ve signed on. And so, truthfully, I think this theme of the issue, truly excites me, like if it can get me to sign on to a project that I had already intended to not be a part of that in itself is quite something. And so yeah, I’m really excited to be working with this. And like Rachel said, it’s more about the different definitions of what ghosts are than truly just about ghost stories, which is what I also think excites our Shadows, as well, as we were talking about it at one of our recent core team meetings. And they’re excited about that, as well.

Rachel Thompson 07:26

Yeah, and shout out to our Shadows, which is a term that I think only Room uses. It’s not like a technical editorial term, but it’s how we do our mentoring. And so, people come on in different roles to kind of witness how an issue is put together and help with small parts of it to practice doing that. And they are Melissa Barrientos and Lena Belova. And we’ve already collaborated, as Ellen said, which I think was fantastic on an article that we put together, that’ll be up tomorrow as of this recording, and it will already be up on Rooms website, once this is released as a podcast. And that already was fun. It’s an article about things that are haunting us. And we’ll talk a bit more about that as well.

08:10

Maybe circling back to the idea of being haunted. I’ve made this bold-ish statement that said, to be a writer is to be haunted by something. And that’s focus and attention to detail, noticing the imprints and the echoes. So, what is currently haunting us, Ellen? What is haunting you, and maybe this one, you can go first, and I will go second. When it comes to our own writing.

Ellen Chang-Richardson 08:35

Okay, currently haunting my own right thing is the idea of decay. It started off as becoming obsessed, re-obsessed with mushrooms over the fall season, and then diving into this world of mycelium, which is fascinating in and of itself. But also, decay has a scent, and it has a scent across different organisms that are decaying. So, whether or not that organism is pinecone, or a bird corpse, it’s going to smell different and it’s going to feel different. And so, I’m like, really obsessed with those little minutiae differences between different types and also different stages of decay. And then to me, what’s interesting is that decay then equates rejuvenation, and rebirth in real life, which is fascinating. So yeah, that’s where I am. How about you, Rachel?

Rachel Thompson 09:33

Yeah, it’s funny, I put this question, and then I hadn’t spent much time in reflection on it. But I guess you’re making me think of the natural world. And there is a piece that I’ve been working on or just a bunch of notes that we’re working towards that Meli, who is here as our co-host has seen some of but as the only person who has which circles around sharks. And embedded in that is the idea of how sharks reproduce, which is, I guess, something that does fascinate me and appears in a lot of my writing, and kind of the coldness of some species versus other species. So, our species and how, I guess the main thing that started me on this was talking to a swim instructor. And I was taking mermaid swimming lessons, which don’t ask me how I stumbled into that particular thing. But I was taking mermaid swimming lessons, and he was talking to me about how some sharks have two uterine and the fetus will attack one another in utero and will swallow up certain animals. So, I mean, talk about, we’re already in I feel like in the terrain of that Gothic kind of idea, I guess. It’s like the child eating its siblings. And yeah, so all of that has been a preoccupation this year, in particular. One of the things, for some reason I want to ask us is what qualifies us to talk about ghosts in all the Senses, we cover in our call for submissions, and other Senses that might not be covered?

Ellen Chang-Richardson 11:04

It’s because you are brilliant. And it’s a question that I’m sure writers often asked, in their own minds when they’re looking at a call. So, I’m glad you asked it. I don’t know what qualifies me. But I know what qualifies Rachel Thompson. So, I’m thinking back to your own writing here. I’m thinking back to Galaxy, which you published with Anvil press in 2011. That whole collection of poetry was about wounded family and ghostly spaces, and it’s like this emotional memoir, biographical collection of works. I think that’s it.

Rachel Thompson 11:43

Well, thank you. I just feel so honored to be working with you, Ellen. So, it’s very mutual. I guess, in terms of qualifications, I feel a little under qualified in terms of the Gothic side of things that like I’m a fan, but actually not even a fan of or I can’t watch horror movies. So, I’m even like, not quite exactly. That’s where maybe my insecurity comes in where I’m like, I’m not quite up to par with that. But I think because we set out to edit this issue, I’ve been taking on more and more and trying to read more widely in the Gothic type of bore milieu. So hopefully, we can do it justice. As an editor, I do try to just sort of let people shine in the way that they shine. I don’t need to understand or know exactly how they’re writing. So, I’m hoping that- that’s not to disappoint you, I can’t watch horror films, but I definitely am looking for your horror stories. Please.

Ellen Chang-Richardson 12:42

I think Lena covers that for us, I think one of our Shadow editors Lena. She’s interested in ghostly spaces, so like the imprints of populations and peoples that came before, especially in the urban sphere. So, I thought that was fascinating. I also cannot watch horror movies, but I really love horror books. So maybe there’s something different there. Also, we talked about how ghosts don’t necessarily just mean scary things. And this leads into our next topic that we’re going to talk about. But one of the books that I’m absolutely in love with explores the way that art haunts creators, like what we do to ourselves to create our work. I think I’m looking for that. If someone submits a poem, or a flash or a story or anything, or even art that is somewhat related to that, I’m going to die. It’s going to be great.

Rachel Thompson 13:37

Yeah, I’m glad you mentioned that too, about reading horror, because even just today I’ve been reading an anthology called Ghostly. Now I’m going to forget the author of the anthology. But the first story and it is from Edgar Allan Poe. And so, I’ve been just sort of trying to get into that headspace and reading that work. And I think maybe that is part of it. It’s like, the graphicness of the films is not my cup of tea, but I can definitely read the stories.

14:04

So, one of the things that I wanted to ask us, too, is what currently haunts us in our reading. And I should mention, too, that this is the article that we wrote with our colleagues. We did a listicle. So, if you’re listening to this in the podcast, it’s already up on roommagazine.com/ghosts. And it’s 10 stories and books currently haunting us.

Ellen Chang-Richardson 14:22

And part of it is actually we want to hear from readers as well. We want your haunting books and your haunting pieces. And we’re thinking of following up our listicle with a follow up listicle of the books and other cultural works that readers sent in.

Rachel Thompson 14:42

Yeah, and I’ve already had, that went out in Rooms newsletter last week. So, I’ve already had some responses. So, I’m excited. People are telling us what is currently haunting them. It’s great.

14:53

What do we hope this issue will be or inspire or do out in the world, Ellen?

Ellen Chang-Richardson 15:00

I guess it’s just the first thing that’s in my head, which may sound a little cliche, but I would hope that in putting this work out in the world, anyone who picks it up, or who reads it may feel akin to something in it. There’s a lot of crap happening in the world right now. And it just feels like it keeps compiling and compiling and compiling. And even though right now, the snow is falling, and it’s beautiful. There’s still this, like, underlying sense of dread. I’m hoping that it’ll provide a sort of a bomb of like, yeah, there is dread. And these are stories of dread. These are stories of grief. These are stories of like, echoes, but in that there can also be stories of hope. Maybe that’s a big answer for a big question. Puts it’s a lot of pressure.

Rachel Thompson 15:53

For me, it’s like, if we contribute even just one drop of that to the world, I think that would be brilliant. So, I mentioned that mythologies of loss issue. And for me, that issue did create a lot of great connection, I had letters from the people we published after the issue, and just the experience was great. I connected with people who had experienced similar grief to me, and I was able to interview them. I feel like this issues have been more about transformation, though, or like magic even right. So, the alchemy of being able to turn that grief into art, but also make it mystical, somehow to pick transcendent again, is the word that keeps coming to mind. For me, it’s a next step on that journey of healing. I’m not sure yet. I’m not sure exactly what the step is, but it feels like the next step or something.

Ellen Chang-Richardson 16:42

Yeah. That’s what I was trying to say.

Rachel Thompson 16:45

What advice do we have for writers who are submitting to the issue?

Ellen Chang-Richardson 16:51

Think outside the box, please, if I see a lot of stories that feature ghost, I mean, great. But it’s got to be a really, really good one if it’s featuring, you know, like a specific ghost or whatever. For me, I just want to see outside the box thinking and structure as well. Experimental structure highly welcomed.

Rachel Thompson 17:13

Our team underlined that in our first meetings, when we were setting up, our call is like looking for something more experimental, the writing. I would add to that, too, like don’t count yourself out. So, if what we’re saying makes you think, oh, well, that’s not what I’m doing in my writing. Try it anyway. Because every issue I’ve done with Room and this is maybe my fifth now, I can’t actually remember, because I mentioned it happened over many years. But I’ve always been surprised by what comes in. And those submissions have led the issue to be what it becomes like it’s like created by the submissions. And even you know, one powerful submission that knocks my socks off, then kind of can inform even other decisions I make in the direction that I’ll go with the issue.

Ellen Chang-Richardson 17:59

That’s really true. I mean, I’ve been with Room since 2020. I’ve read a lot for the main submissions, but my most recent editorial experience was with Audacity, and strong submissions will guide an issue. So, like Rachel said, don’t count yourself out.

Rachel Thompson 18:16

Yeah, like use the call that we made as a guideline versus as the rules of what we want to see. And then the other thing, I think, you know, listen so far, or picking up is like, we want those stories that you deeply connect to that maybe do connect to some sort of deeper experience or deeper knowing about the world. So, please write the stories only you can tell. It sounds like a cliche now, but it’s really true. Things that truly haunt you. I think there’s real deliberateness to us using that word haunted. Over and over again.

18:53

I am interruption my discussion with Ellen Chang-Richardson for a moment, right before we jump into questions from the writers present during our live recording. It’s for good reason, I want to let you know about a new program I created because so many writers told me they were looking for an all-in, intensive experience. As of this recording, the first session is half-filled, so there are only four spots left.

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20:03

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20:12

Now back to Ellen Chang-Richardson as they and I field questions from the writers, starting with a couple that we catch going by in the Zoom chat from our live audience…

Ellen Chang-Richardson 20:24

There is actually a pretty great comment in the chat about mentions of ghosts in fiction and last week, so Danny Ramadan, in his new work, actually has like main ghosts as part of his novel, Butter Honey Pig Bread my friend, Francesca Ekwuyasi also has ghosts in them. A lot of ghosts.

Rachel Thompson 20:46

Yeah. And actually, I think that’s a good question about Room. And we identify marginalized genders is basically non sis had men, I have to define it by opposite. Basically, learn on sis men, basically, actually. So that does include people who identify as women, people who are women, and non-binary folks and trans men as well. So, people who are here attending live and watching, as far as I know about your genders, you all would qualify. I put that first in the call, because even though Rooms been around for so long, we still get submissions from people who don’t qualify. I just wanted to put that front and center and make that upfront part of the call.

21:38

What is the most haunting piece of writing you’ve read? And why was it so haunting? That’s the question from Candice.

Ellen Chang-Richardson 21:45

Wow, that’s a really good question. The most haunting piece of writing? Can I just say, like the piece of writing that’s haunting me the most instead of like the most haunting, because that’s all I can think about right now. The tome that is haunting my life, is Tolstoy’s War in peace, because I made a deal with my 16-year-old self that I was going to read this book. And I am now 32. And I have not finished this book. And so, it’s literally going to be a life project. And it’s at the back. Every time I buy a new book, pick up a new collection, finish reading other things. It’s there like, hello, you’re going to read me… That’s all I can think of right now. I hope it was an okay answer. I know it might not be the answer you’re looking for.

Rachel Thompson 22:34

Yeah, I’m trying to think too. I mean, I always have trouble saying what’s my favorite book. Because it changes over time. And then I always think, Oh, I’m going to forget someone. I guess I’m thinking a lot of Anne Carson’s writing, someone who has written a lot of grief in really beautiful, super sharp, really intellectual type of writing, as well, too. But the “Autobiography of Red” is a book I read, many years ago that really stuck with me. First of all, it’s a book in verse, which is always just, I would say, that’s my favorite of the sub genres when it comes to full length books.

Ellen Chang-Richardson 23:08

I have a better answer now, Candice, for your question. A novel, or a piece of writing that haunts me is… I read this book by Sarah Peters in 2019, or 2020. And it’s called “I Become a Delight to My Enemies.” It is really neat. In the same way that Rachel is talking about how Anne Carson, writes “Autobiography of Red” is this verse novel, I Become a Delight to My Enemies is like, take what you know about a novel and now blow it up. Just blow it to smithereens. You know, there’s marginalia stuck in there. It tackles really sharp, ghostly topics. It has this like a cool thing that runs through it, which for me is weird that I like it because I usually run in the opposite direction and I’m a Buddhist. But it’s a really good book. And very haunting as well. We have another question actually. It is a memoir that stands alone–

Rachel Thompson 24:12

Yes. Always. We just have to stand alone, but it’s in the question.

Ellen Chang-Richardson 24:17

Yeah, agreed.

Rachel Thompson 24:19

Yeah. And even shorter works, too. You don’t have to answer all the questions. So, I would presume in a memoir, there are big questions, you know, that will be kind of uncovered and discovered and answered through the length of the memoir. So that’s the beauty of the shorter version. But of course, I’m saying this, not to use that, but to the people listening out there. But yeah, you kind of trimmed down, slice out some of the questions, but not necessarily all of them. I don’t think you need to wrap everything up in a short piece. Laurel has a question. So, Laurel, go ahead.

Laurel Perry 24:53

I’ll throw it out there. It’s a bit prosaic compared to all this lovely discussion about haunting and other literature. How does it actually physically work with Room magazine? Like, people submit. And then do you have like a group of volunteer readers that that, and then the two editors finally get like a shortlist is that or a long list or something like that. And then how does it all work? I’m just so curious about how Room magazine does it?

Rachel Thompson 25:18

Yeah, that’s a great question to ask. And actually, it is related to another question I get, because those of you here are part of my chorus and membership community. And so, I’m working with some writers, and I’m encouraging them to submit to the magazine that I’m editing. So, there’s sort of transparency that’s required for that. So, I think it’s good to ask that. So, I can provide that transparency, which is we do have first readers. And because I’m the issue editor, I am not among those first readers. And we are largely a volunteer collective, we have some paid staff members, like we’re large and mighty for a magazine, we have a very big crew of people who rotate through editorial roles. And so that’s why it’s just sort of once in a blue moon that I’m editing an issue, because we sign up.

26:04

Also, there’s no rhyme or rhythm to that necessarily, we just sign up for issues that we want to edit and are available. And often actually what Ellen described, people get busy, because that role is an honorarium-based role. So, it’s not like everyone can necessarily fulfill it. And so those things switch around when I didn’t issue on crime. And that one completely just fell into my lap, midstream. That’s the kind of thing that can happen when you have a volunteer collected. But to focus on answer your question, yes, we have first readers, I hesitate to just call them volunteer, although clearly, it’s an unpaid role but they are part of the collective and we make decisions as a collective. So, we’re part of the decision making body of the magazine. So, it’s not like they’re only just sort of random volunteers. They themselves probably have edited other issues or been on other editorial teams. But then they send the work to me. And then for me, I feel like I have free license to choose the work that sings and resonates most with me, because it’s already been approved by that other tier of the collective.

Ellen Chang-Richardson 27:06

And then Rachel will share those final pieces that are pushed through with her core editorial team, which include myself, Melissa Barrientos and Lena Belova, and then the four of us decide which pieces we want to have included in the issue that aligns with our curatorial concept. So those here with us live today on the about page that I linked in the chat, there is a brief bio on every single member of the editorial collective at Room. So, like Rachel said, all of the first readers are Room collective members. And in order to become a Room Collective member, there’s actually an application process. So, while it is a volunteer-based position, there is still a whole process by which we ended up part of this collective.

Rachel Thompson 27:54

Yeah, they’re super people.

Ellen Chang-Richardson 28:00

Everyone’s so rad.

Rachel Thompson 28:01

Yeah. And I think sometimes when it comes down to two in the past, actually, there have been maybe we had one spot to fill in, there are a few people and one of whom was someone I had worked with before. So, I will then also put that to the team because I just want to make sure that I’m giving everyone a fair shake, because it’s a great experience to be published. In Room it is considered, it’s funny, because we’re like this mix of high tier, low tier, I feel like a bit to where it’s fairly accessible. We publish a lot of first-time writers, but then people really do like having that Room credit on their resume. I’ve definitely heard from so many writers who have been trying and trying and trying to submit and I always say to them, just keep submitting, because it’s just such a different makeup every time maybe the next time I’ll be the first reader and someone else will be the editor. I mean, for sure, that’s going to be what happens and you just have to hit the right people.

Ellen Chang-Richardson 28:58

And this is like from my work on multiple different editorial boards. But keep submitting because sometimes a wave that you are submitted in has just so many submissions and incredible submissions, and editors end up having to make very difficult decisions. Whereas the next wave may have not enough submissions, and editors are scrambling trying to find something that is going to fit that issue. So, never stop submitting. It’s really the note there.

Rachel Thompson 29:30

Well, thanks so much, Ellen, for joining me to have this conversation.

Ellen Chang-Richardson 29:35

Thank you for having me.

Rachel Thompson 29:36

We were going to work on this issue one way or another, just switch roles. It’s funny because actually, when Shristi asked me to fill in for the issue, this is an insight into how I work is I didn’t even remember it was the same issue that we had like the same number that we’re working on. I was just like, look at my calendar. Yes, I’m available at that time. Okay, I’ll do it. But it’s all coming together in a way that is great. I think as of my last shift, we had maybe around 200 submissions, and that’s across all genres, art, and people who are listening here, and people who are out in the world should know, the people listening here do know that it’s like of those maybe 10% usually it’s like my really rough number of the ones that are going to be, you know, under any kind of serious consideration. So, work really hard on your pieces. Give in your best and you’ll have great chances of getting in the issue.

Ellen Chang-Richardson 30:28

Exactly.

Rachel Thompson 30:32

So, that was my conversation with Ellen Chang-Richardson and with some members in the readily love community.

30:39

You can find links to the books we mentioned in this episode in our show notes at rachelthompson.co/podcast/63. This includes the collection of short stories I’m reading called Ghostly, collected and introduced by Audrey Niffenegger with a new ghostly story by her.

****31:03

And the deadline to submit to Room’s issue 46.3 is January 5, 2023, so send us your best, most haunting writing, please. We are so grateful to our brilliant contributors who really shape the magazine.

31:18

That’s been my experience with every issue that I’ve edited for Room.

31:23

In this episode, you heard me poorly explain our guidelines for contributors when it comes to gender and who we are making space for, so definitely check those out up at roommagazine.com.

31:36

To make sure you’re a fit, you most likely are just knowing that people who are listening to this podcast and who join the community. More generally, though, we are looking for fiction, creative non-fiction, and poetry that has never been published before. We also publish art, and the publication criteria is different for visual art, so again head to Room’s website. We pay all of our contributors. And, importantly, we really want to offer a good experience for writers with thoughtful, considerate editing. I know Ellen and our whole team, including our Shadow Editors Melissa Barrientos and Lena Belova are here for this thoughtful and collaborative approach, so don’t hold back and submit your best.

32:23

Ellen and I mentioned our collaborative listicle of 10 works of writing currently haunting us, you can find this up at roommagazine.com/ghosts.

32:38

And, if you want to send us a couple of lines about work that is currently haunting you, it’s the time to do this right now. We would love to hear from you and want to follow up our listicle with a reader/listener generated listicle. Ignore any previous deadlines we put in Room ‘s newsletter or on the article as there might still be time to be included as of this recording. You can send those with the subject-line “Ghosts” to me at hello@rachelthompson.co.

33:13

The Write, Publish, and Shine Intensive is a five-month program for writers who want to generate, revise, and publish new works of writing with expert support and a community of writers at your back.

33:25

At the end of your intensive you will have polished several stories, poems, or hybrid work, submitted your work to publications that fit you, prepared for a big “YES” for your writing and your writing dreams, and found your place in a community of writers.

33:40

If you are ready to write, publish, and shine, this intensive program is for you.

33:45

You can learn more about the Write, Publish, and Shine Intensive and sign up at rachelthompson.co/intensive.

33:49

The Write, Publish, and Shine podcast is brought to you by me, Rachel Thompson. You can learn more about the work I do to help writers, write, publish, and shine at rachelthompson.co. When you’re there, sign up for my Writerly Love letters, sent every-other Thursday and filled with support for your writing practice.⁠

34:11

If this episode encouraged you to haunt us and submit to Room 46.3, Ghosts, please do!

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And please tell other luminous writers about this episode. You can do this by sending them to the podcast at rachelthompson.co/podcast or searching for Write, Publish, and Shine wherever they get their podcasts.

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Thank you for listening I encourage you to keep your spirits up and write luminously!

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Ellen Chang-Richardson spoke to me from lands colonially known as Ottawa, which is on unceded Algonquin territory.

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And I am a guest in the South Sinai, Egypt, on lands historically and presently occupied by the el Muzzina Bedouin.