TRANSCRIPT # Transcript **SPEAKERS:** Meli Walker, Rachel Thompson **Rachel Thompson:** 00:01 Welcome luminous writers to the **Write, Publish and Shine** podcast. I'm your host, author and literary magazine editor Rachel Thompson. This podcast explores how to write and share your brilliant writing with the world. In each episode, we delve into specifics on how to polish and prepare your writing for publication and the journey from emerging writer to published author. 00:27 In this episode number 70 of the **Write, Publish and Shine** podcast. I am peeling back the curtain, it's a little peak behind the podcast. You have heard me multiple times mention courses I offer, and my membership community, Writerly Love. And if you haven't yet, or you need a reminder what they are, you can find out about all the things going on at [https://rachelthompson.co/courses/.](https://rachelthompson.co/courses/) 00:53 For example, registration is presently open for the Revision Love course, a five-week guided course where I roll up my sleeves with you to teach you to become your own best editor. 01:03 So that's a little plug for that course. But it's also some context for what this episode is about. You can listen to learn about what exactly is going on. I have some real hashtag transparency moments about what I'm hearing back from writers out there and our broader community meaning people who listen to these podcast episodes and people who are getting my Writerly Love Letters. And I discuss all this with the facilitator for our Writerly Love community Meli Walker, who you heard on the podcast before we go through what's happened recently, the guest workshops that we had in the past, what we're doing currently in the membership, which is our workshop, and how we're thinking about workshop and what specific things have informed the workshop process that we use updates on publications so far, and publication news. 01:58 And by the way, I'm going to be sending out a list of recent publications on my newsletter, which you can sign up for at rachelthompson.co/letter. This would be a list of publications from members in my course and membership community. We've had some pretty amazing recent publications. And I think it's always great to kind of check out what are the opportunities out there that people who are emerging writers like you, I assume you're listening to this podcast, and what you could potentially reach out to as well, and where you might aspire to or see yourself going with your own publishing for writing. 02:34 We talk a bit about what's happening in terms of platform building, which was a component of our Writerly Love community and still is, but maybe why that's quieted down a bit. And we also get into our Book Club next read, and we definitely encourage you to read the book with us. We are reading ***Voice First*** by **Sonya Huber**. And we will be discussing it in an upcoming episode. And you're very welcome to read along with us. 03:02 And then I also talk about what's coming up some thoughts I have about how to continue to reach out and extend invitations to people to join our Writerly Love membership community. And that's really about it. So, it's more of a behind-the-scenes episode this time. 03:21 Next week, we will have another **Six Senses** showcase for you. Keep listening, if you're always kind of curious about what are we up to, what's going on, what is happening in the membership, what is happening in terms of what I'm hearing from the broader writing community right now. So, stick around if you want to listen to that. Otherwise, we'll be back to more regular programming next week with other successes showcase. And then upcoming discussions with emerging writers about how they are Writing, Publishing and Shining. And all of this is for you to help you with your own luminous writing. 03:59 Hi, Meli, thank you for being here with me, we're going to do something a little different this time, it’s episode 70. I have been trying on the 10’s episodes to do something that maybe peels back the curtain a little bit more, takes you a bit more into what's happening here in the Write, Publishing Shine broader community. 04:22 This episode is all about the state of the community. We're going to talk about our Book Club, which I've just recently mentioned in an episode that we will be expanding that to listeners so you don't need to be a member to be part of it. We'll talk a bit more about what that means. We're going to talk about what's happening now, what's coming up next, a little bit behind the scenes, and I hope some thoughts and reflections just even on what's happening in the greater community and that you as listeners may feel even reflected in some of our reflections on this. And also some of the context is that I'm the host, and Meli Walker is our facilitator for the [Writerly Love membership](https://rachelthompson.co/join/) community. But we define writing community as being kind to everyone who's tuned in and is connected to us in some way. But we are going to talk about some specifics and what's happening in the Writerly Love membership community as well. **Meli Walker:** 05:20 Yeah, hi, Rachel, I'm looking forward to having this conversation. And so it's good to reflect with you and talk about what's going on now. And what's happening with the writers we interact with? So, thanks for inviting me to be part of this. **Rachel Thompson:** 05:34 I guess I want to start with just the most recent past, so we've had three really awesome as the word I put in my notes here 'workshops' last month, all kind of related to empathy for writers. If you're tuned into the pod, and you weren't able to catch the workshops themselves, then you would have heard from each of those guests, as well, because we interviewed them and talked about what they were working on in craft and offering our members in craft. What I like about those little moments is we capture so many of the writers who we don't see regularly. So, people just kind of come in for the one workshop because it fits with what they're doing in their writing. And we get to hear their writing, because they read from what they're working on as well. All of that just felt great. I think in terms of building connections and meeting more writers. **Meli Walker:** 06:28 Yeah, it was great to hear from people that joined the workshop, whether they joined one or all three and learned from them, in terms of how they're applying the lessons that the guests were bringing to us on point of view and writing about objects. And *Lyric Prose*, was great to hear from most writers. And then within our writing community, Writerly Love, we also heard from folks in the slack threads that they were getting a lot out of those workshops, and that they had affected their writing. And that's always great to hear. **Rachel Thompson:** 07:02 Yeah, and I guess I find myself in particular, and really for no particular reason, because I think all the workshops were great, but I've definitely found myself returning to the point of view, writing exercises that [Naomi J. Williams](https://rachelthompson.co/podcast/65/) brought to us and experimenting with that and starting with using that shape in my own writing. So it's been really cool for me personally to just, it's not often that I'm writing along with the writers. And that was one workshop where I was just jumping right into it too. Those were episode 65, 66 and 67 of the Podcast where each of those writers who came and shared their talents and ideas with us and working in multiple genres, I think there's a lot to benefit from just listening to how they're thinking about writing and how they're approaching their own writing in those episodes as well. 07:57 One of the things we picked up from that workshop series is that there's a demand for it. And people want to jump in like that. And we've already had people approach us about offering other workshops and more people wanting to do workshops in the future. It was just like a big boost in terms of the response to it, so, I definitely can see us doing something like that in the future. So, stay tuned about that. 08:23 I think the other side of it, and one of the things I want to discuss, and maybe this is the behind the scenes, peeling back the layers a little bit too is I offered those workshops in a pay what you can model with the base price being $10. I didn't even define the currency, because often I do charge things in US dollars, because we're International, but I was able to offer it in a way that it went in your own currency. So, it was 10 of any kind of dollar, as you wanted to define it, depending on your local currency. I still heard from a lot of people who were challenged to be able to afford even that nominal amount to be able to pay for a workshop. 09:02 I guess maybe that's two things. And that sort of relates to the state of the community is that I think we are attracting and makes sense to me, a lot of people who deal with limitations, like physical or mental health limitations that prevent them from being gainfully employed or as wealthy as writers who can afford something more than a $10 workshop. That wasn't the base price. But that was sort of the minimum amount for registering for those workshops. 09:31 And I guess the other part of it is just we're in this recession maybe or whatever this is it's going on right now and people are still kind of trying to come out of that really cautious about where they put their money towards writing programs right now. And I'm saying this in the context to like some of the big like, catapult writing programs just pulled the plug very quickly at the beginning of this month as we're recording this too. So, I'm interested to see, I guess, or, you know, more than interested, maybe sometimes anxious a little bit to see what that means in terms of the future of being able to offer programs in this way. And people being able to engage with them, you know, I'm trying to offer sliding scales for almost everything that I do. And the top of the scale, I'm also trying to have that help pay for the lower end of the scale too. So, often people do, I should say, many people do register at the top of the sliding scale, because they can afford it. And they're happy to support that practice. And I'm really grateful for that. 10:39 But it was a little eye opening for me, because it's the first time we've done workshops like this, normally, those are offered only exclusively to members. And so they're just part of the membership, it's the first time we put a price tag on them, in fact said, 'Okay, well, not a price tag, it's a pay what you can, price'. And yeah, I was just, I guess surprised by that smaller price being also challenging for people, maybe not even surprised is the right word is more like disappointed. And not because of the people who are writing to me, but just because of the state of things, economically and accessibility wise. **Meli Walker:** 11:16 Yeah, I think that makes sense that you'd be concerned about that. And it's important to have actual diversity in the group. And so, it's important to be able to invite everyone, and also balance that we're making sure that the guests that we hire or compensated as well. So it's a bit of a thing to keep in mind, because I don't think that the economic and systemic issues we're dealing with right now are necessarily going away. So it'll be interesting to keep this top of mind. 11:50 I also appreciate that people did write to you, and I guess, that says something about your receptivity. And that you're able to listen and maybe not solve their immediate financial issues at the individual level but reflect and think about how we can make sure that we're inviting people into the community to participate and to be writing. I mean, that's what we keep finding over and over that getting people to write is really the thing. So it's wonderful that these guests have information to share and reflections to share. And then part of the workshop is to actually be doing the writing. And that's, I think, kind of when we think about like the community, we all want to be sort of doing the writing. And so how can we keep making these offerings that give people that opportunity? 12:36 So yeah, I guess if you're out there, and you did pay for the top end of the scale for those workshops, and you're listening to this, thank you for doing that. And also, if you are struggling with your finances, under the current conditions of society, then also thank you for doing what you can to both participate, and also let us know when there's limitations. So I think it all needs to be included. And I think I can speak for you, Rachel, we're grateful that people are doing what they can to participate and let us know. **Rachel Thompson:** 13:06 Yeah, I feel truly honored when people write out and say, 'This isn't working for me, and this is.' Usually, it comes with a story too. 'This is my situation. And this is why I can't access it'. I should also say the story is not really necessary when it comes to the sliding scale that I offer to you. And that's why I decided to offer it that way. Previously, I had a scholarship program, and I felt uncomfortable being the judge and jury of that program. So, I thought people should self-assess. I have some language there that says, you know, like, 'if you have generational wealth, and maybe consider a different level, if it's like if your economic circumstances are temporary, versus this is sort of a long, ongoing thing'. I don't want to only talk about the finances thing. But that is actually part of what I want to talk about today, in terms of our community, I guess, because that's what I'm hearing every time I love something it's I definitely hear back from people who are struggling and feel comfortable enough telling me that they are and are wondering about how they can fit in. **Meli Walker:** 14:07 I think this is a good place to do it too, because this is a free offering on the podcast. So it gives us an opportunity to reach people that may have been affected by this and might be affected in the future. So yeah, I'm glad that you're being open about that and sharing that. **Rachel Thompson:** 14:24 This is our hashtag transparency episode. **Meli Walker:** 14:29 Yeah, I'm excited to talk about our writing workshops or peer writing workshops. Distinguishing that from our guest workshops, which we've just been discussing where we invite guests to come in and offer us ideas and writing prompts. I know the next thing we want to talk about is our peer writing workshop in which members in the community of the Writerly Love community exchange their writing, and give each other feedback based on a specific workshop process. So, I'd love to hear from you Rachel about how you developed that workshop process? I've watched it grow over the last few years. And I've really enjoyed participating in facilitating that. But I'd be curious to know how it's going right now. And maybe what you think makes people keep returning? **Rachel Thompson:** 15:16 Yeah, thanks for bringing us to the next point, which is, this is what we're currently doing this month on Sundays. People are workshopping, they're meeting live together in small groups. And these are peer workshops. There's not a facilitator, but there is a very specific program, minute by minute program that we put people through. And yeah, in terms of how it developed, I think when we first started workshopping, I just had a list of don'ts of things that I saw happen in workshops in the past, in terms of negative experiences that I myself have had, and then also friends of mine had and other writers that had in workshop, that we're all kind of based on. They're linked to oppression in a lot of cases, so like gendered responses, silencing, and then also cultural chauvinism, and all those kinds of things that have happened in past workshops. We used to have like our first meeting, and I go through that, you know, these are the things to avoid, these are the experiences that people have had, every single time, it was kind of a tearful meeting, because someone would share some really deeply vulnerable story about how they'd been hurt when someone had misunderstood them. And I mean, like, actively, you know, it's not that we're that sensitive, we're definitely a sensitive group of folks. But it's just like more deliberately misunderstood them and minimized their contribution to art. 16:45 And so, I kind of started there. But then in our Book Club, which we are going to talk a little bit more about, we read two amazing books. One was **Matthew Salesses** *[Craft in the Real World](https://books.catapult.co/books/craft-in-the-real-world/)*, and the other was **Felicia Rose Chavez**, the *[Anti-Racist Writing Workshop](https://www.haymarketbooks.org/books/1552-the-anti-racist-writing-workshop).* And both of those really informed not just like the don'ts of workshops, but more of the how-to's. This is like been an ongoing problem since the first writing course I ever took, which was in the 1990's. I'm dating myself here a little bit, which is also fine, hashtag transparency. But you know, to see these more positive solutions, and both of those writers Felicia Rose Chavez and Matthew Salesses referenced something called the ***Critical Response Process*** by **Liz Lerman**. I mean, I can't emphasize enough if you're doing workshop, yourself, if you're leading a workshop, both of those books are amazing for the processes that they've created. And we kind of built our own, from those processes too. So standing on the shoulders of those two, who are also standing on the shoulders of Liz Lerman, who I should say, comes from the theater world. And there's a different approach to workshop that doesn't involve the cone of silence, which is something that we do not have the silencing rule in our workshop. And the author is allowed to ask questions, suggestions are only given with permission, just you know, a few examples of how we do it. And then there's a specific time for each of those that we were using, I would say even more Matthew Salesses adopted Critical Response Process where there's like, what he calls opinion time for the suggestions period, we definitely have adopted that language as well. 18:32 And then another thing we do that people freak out about every single time we do it, I kind of love it, because I know that it's a little bit scary, but then they actually really get a lot out of it is we have them do a visual response, the very first response they give to someone else's work is visual. And of course, we are primarily word people there are definitely visual artists among us. So, people make their chickens, grant sketches, or whatever they want to do. Sometimes they do elaborate collage, sometimes they do kind of a still life type of image where they collect objects around their home and take a photo. But that's our first response to the writing that happens before the workshop. And then as I said, in the workshop, we have like a five minute program of what we go through for each participant. And I think every time we do it, I see people come in and the first time they're like, I don't know about this and by the end of it they seem very excited about the process. It's a little intimidating at first but now we also have a critical mass so we no longer have a first meeting where we go over the process because we have enough members who understand the process and they help guide the new members in just reassurance first of all, 'yeah, it's okay. I was freaked out the first time I had to do a visual response but now I know what to do, and you can too'. 19:53 And then also they're there in the live conversation. I should say all this happens over Zoom. We are entirely an online program. So, these are Zoom, breakout rooms, people meeting up and going through each other's writing throughout the month. What are you seeing Meli? You are also in the workshops, we're both there facilitating in different roles during the live workshop. **Meli Walker:** 20:15 Yeah, I think, you know, at this point, we're doing the workshops four times a year. So folks have the opportunity to have their work looked at by their peers on a somewhat regular basis. 20:27 I think the visual feedback, the first time that someone participates in the peer workshop feels intimidating and unusual. But I think it's great to be able to like having participated myself as someone giving feedback. I'm reading the other writers piece that they're workshopping, and I'm making notes or I'm making a mind map that gives me an opportunity to sort of reflect back to the writer what I see, or what I sense in the writing, you know, I sort of come to workshop that morning, and I've already kind of like, done the homework of it, because it's due the night before. And I think that that gives space for the sort of more, I guess, verbal or live aspect of it, where we go through the different phases of the process. And so each writers getting about 35 or 40 minutes, with everyone spending time on their piece of writing. I really think that giving people the option to consent to suggestions, the author is able to say whether they want to spend 10 minutes on receiving opinions from the people giving feedback. And then I think that the next steps section where the author ends by naming one or two things they will try in revision, they get to have five minutes to talk about where they will go next, which I think links to the next process, which is revision again. And I noticed this in general, that folks are feeling excited to return to work rather than, 'Oh, this is overwhelming. I don't really want to look at this anymore', which I think can happen in some workshop spaces where there's this sort of onslaught of information. 22:05 So I think the fact that Matthew Salesses and Felicia Rose Chavez and the Liz Lerman process, even just of asking questions of the author, these kinds of things help the author feel excited about returning to their work, usually, my hope is that they feel supported. And it's also sometimes if people are new to the Writerly Love community, they don't really know anyone yet. And so, it's an opportunity to meet in real-time, and talk about writing. And that's the exciting stuff. So, it's been good to see it grow. And it's really great to see writers who have done it before supporting and guiding the newer writers, lots of people, of course, have come to our peer workshops, having workshops before, but maybe haven't done this process, as you say. So it's been nice to have the community start to make itself as well, so that there isn't necessarily that sort of authoritarian, lecturing, dynamic, that it's more communal is the hope, with some bones to like, keep the structure in place with the process that we've been talking about. **Rachel Thompson:** 23:09 I appreciate that you mentioned the outcome being that people are excited to revise your work, because that's our stated goal. And then that's what we do everything through it's like, we want you to know what you want to do next with your work. And it needs to be true to you, too. So there's no prescription of 'Oh, you need to do this, oh, this needs to be that'. It's like, what is the vision that you have for your writing? And what is the thing that's exciting for you to do next? And maybe I'll segue directly into the benefits of that are that people are publishing that at work. We're in a period right now in the Writerly Love community have several victory laps of people going around and saying, 'thank you', giving shout out to the specific people who are in the workshop with them. 23:58 Someone recently sold a memoir. And we're going to be talking about that soon. We have an intended fiction project, we have a lot of really exciting news. And that's alongside our usual news of people publishing in book banks, which is a much more common occurrence. But now I guess our community has matured to the level and we've been around long enough. 24:21 If you're listening to this, and you're writing, you know this is a long game, the writing game. So, we have now people who are excited on the book publishing level as well. And a lot of that is coming out of what we're doing in those workshops, developing that writing and then they again, were had that inspiration to keep going to keep realizing the vision that they had for their work in their writing. 24:46 And actually so much so that our theme for next month in Writerly Love is Agency. We're going to talk about agency, you know, in your own writing life taking charge of your writing, but also will speak to some of the writers who've recently acquired an agent, people who are currently trying to find an agent and the processes that they're going through. All of this started from my course called [Lit Mag Love](https://rachelthompson.co/podcast/65/), which was all about getting published in Lit Mags. But now, that's not the only need right now. For sure, there's a lot of writers who started the membership, and that's where they're at. But the writers who've now been doing this two or three years, are ready for the next step. 25:24 So, one of the other things we do in the Writerly Love membership community is work on platform building, kind of hand-in-hand with working on your writing, because an agent, part of attracting a publisher is showing that you have an audience already somehow. 25:42 So, I have a whole course called [Platform Sparkle](https://rachelthompson.co/platform/), I have a background in doing some marketing, adjacent work. And we've had guests come in who are social media marketers, who are branding experts and talking about all these different ways of marketing yourself, building an audience, that's, again, always based on authenticity, though. So finding something that feels authentic to you is something that will help you really reach the people that you are intended to reach. And also, part of that marketing is repelling the people who you're not meant to reach to. A standby how we do that in terms of, again, authenticity, and not like some kind of artificial marketing method of showing off. And, you know, look at how great I am, is more real than that. But I think one of the things that's maybe complicated that for me in the past year is I've entirely stepped away from social media, see above re authenticity, even when I tried to do it in an authentic way, I have not appreciated the time that it takes me to do it, never mind all the social problems that are coming out of social media, that I'm very attuned to and concerned about. I guess I'm trying to figure out how to continue to do that to help people market themselves to build that kind of audience. Because of me personally, I'm in a position where I feel like I have an audience through my newsletters through this podcast. And I don't need to keep building that through social media. But some of them maybe do want to, I know there, many writers are still on Instagram. Many of our members have like a little Instagram group where they help support each other when they post things. And even have a specific plan for that, although that might be against their Terms of Use. So let's just pretend that they don't, that this is all very authentic as well. 27:38 I have platform building question mark in our agenda here, because I'm like, you know, we have a course around it. We have activities happening around it. But I haven't been inviting guests or doing specific content related to... By content, I mean, like programming courses, live calls related to platform building. **Meli Walker:** 27:59 So the Writerly Love members have access to the Platform Sparkle course to do at their own pace. And one of the things I noticed just picking up what you're saying about authenticity is the first lesson is about your mindset foundation. So as you say, fostering the attitude and practices that you need to take the incremental, long term steps to show up and be seen your focus foundation hone in on the core of your platform. So how you present is not overwhelming for you. And what you present is intelligible for your audience. And then the audience foundation, empathizing with your unique audience, finds out where you and they intersect in the best ways for you to connect with them. So, I see you modeling that with your own work, in terms of what you choose and choose not to engage in, in terms of building platforms. 28:55 So yeah, I mean, there was a time when, you know, we had a whole group going through the course live, and people were building their websites for the first time or updating websites that they wanted to work on. And that was great. But I think also, I just kept thinking it comes down to people wanting to write. And so, it's not to say that building a platform isn't important, but it seems like over the last little while we've- where I've been supporting you, and we've been having a lot of discussions about how to make sure people are writing. And so I think that maybe explains a little bit why we haven't necessarily focused on platform, even though of course, there's creativity to that and there's generating content for your website or your newsletter. And I noticed that, you know, members do support each other. They use the platform channel in our Slack area. So they do things to sort of work around the algorithms or give each other advice or subscribe to each other's newsletters and things like that. But I think the actual writing has become a priority, I would say, and so maybe that's why we haven't necessarily been platforming as much. But as you say, it's very helpful information and resource making to offer to writers who are publishing and looking for agents and things like that. So just try to be aware that writers are at different stages in their writing life and offer them the support they need, even if it is a self-guided course that those resources are there for them to access. **Rachel Thompson:** 30:30 That's also maybe something that seems to have changed in the last couple of years where it's become more and more of an urgent priority. A lot of writers who maybe had a more regular practice have slipped away from that, and need more accountability and more like generative. So that's all those workshops we talked about we did last month. There just seems to be much more urgency. And I don't know if part of that is also the honesty that came up this period that we've all been through, I guess too, where people are just more frank like, yeah, I just need help writing, I need to get down to my writing practice, or I don't have time to write or I haven't had time to write, **Meli Walker:** 31:07 Or I do have time to write but I'm still not doing it. **Rachel Thompson:** 31:10 Yeah, exactly. **Meli Walker:** 31:12 Yeah. **Rachel Thompson:** 31:13 I'm interrupting this state of the community conversation with Meli Walker, to invite you to hone your craft, build your writing platform and connect with other luminous creative writers in the Writerly Love community. This is my warm, inclusive and supportive membership community for creative writers to get together, learn about everything from writing craft and getting published, to building a platform and sustaining yourself as a writer. Really everything that Meli and I are talking about right now. And it is a place to grow a luminous writing career with a community of brilliant peers. 31:48 If you're ready to learn and grow, I'd love to have you join the Writerly Love membership community. Registration is open year round now and I offer a sliding scale pricing model to make it as accessible to as many writers as possible. 32:01 You can learn more and sign up at rachelthompson.co/join. 32:05 You know, every once in a while, a member will say, 'Oh, I'm looking forward to maybe doing more platform stuff soon'. But it feels to me that the things that people show up for are the ones where it's like, let's sit down and write together. And here's a structure to the writing like, 'Okay, write this now. And now read this and now share some of this', that seems more important than the platform stuff. And part of that, of course, as I said, is filtered through the fact that I'm not that interested in building things on social media. I mean, I'm not unique in that. And there's a real uncertainty to that, too. There was a time that was really important to publishers. So it's like, how many Twitter followers does this writer have? Like in those kind of metrics were always being bandied about as being like, well, you know, you need to, especially like with nonfiction subjects, maybe you need to have a kind of following around this topic. But I'm seeing and also suspecting I guess, that that's become less important than there are other ways to build an audience that are off social media. 33:10 So, I guess that's what I need to turn to is sort of like, what are those other ways? And other things we could do as a community to work on those things as well? Because, as we've always said, and now we're seeing is like, you build something on that network, and that network changes. So like social media company changes, then all that work is for not, really. That's my soapbox on that. **Meli Walker:** 33:33 Yeah, people really want to write, I don't know how to say that. Maybe I'm overstating that. But I'm just following the energy of that, you know, responding to people wanting to write, we get really energized after those calls of people writing and sharing their writing. And some things happen in cycles. And maybe we'll return to platform building in a more formal way at some point. But yeah, it's nice to see folks like I said, in the Writerly Love community supporting each other, in their newsletter making and all that stuff. **Rachel Thompson:** 34:08 Yeah. And it's happening in a more self-directed way. And it's true. I mean, we're recording this the day after we just recorded six writers sharing their work from some generative guided writing sessions that we did last summer on the Six Senses, and talk about energy that was really incredible to hear their writing and also, it felt like appreciated, that they had to read it live, so then help them with doing some revision on that writing as well too. And there was super energy around that. So, when we meet you and I, Meli, we're saying this, for the benefit of listeners, where you're kind of getting an insight into how we talk about what's happening in the community, like, 'Oh, we're seeing this. Okay, let's follow that energy. Let's go this way'. **Meli Walker:** 34:52 Yeah, and that was the one we recorded yesterday's 2.0 version of Six Senses showcase that was also released as a podcast episode. So, it was just really fun. And people enjoyed it, and it was great conversation. And so, we said, 'Let's do that again'. And I think that format of offering folks a platform for their writing in the form of a podcast recording, and first, it's a live call within the membership community, video call and an opportunity to hear from each other and share with each other. So I'm looking forward to doing more of those events. And that is also a legitimate way of building a platform and building connections to other writers based on the writing, which, you know, not to get into an either or place, but that does feel like a great place to be in terms of sharing your work and sharing of yourself. Because it's coming from the actual writing, as opposed to, I don't know, coming up with content for the sake of coming up with content to share. So it's been nice to follow that thread and to do things that writers feel excited about. So, I look forward to that more. **Rachel Thompson:** 36:04 Yeah, versus what they feel like, 'Oh, I guess I should do this'. And then they don't really. We're trying to learn how to really measure what people are really interested in versus what they maybe say they're interested in learning or doing. 36:19 One of the things that they're interested in, or definitely we've been fine tuning is the Book Club. And a lot of people join the membership, because they want to be part of this craft book club. They're excited about that. And we have lead readers who go through the book and post discussions about that in our Slack community. And not everybody joins that conversation. But we've heard from people who said, 'Oh, they appreciate getting an overview of what the benefits are of that book'. So they decide if they want to read it, they don't always have to read it. They can join the book club conversations without having read it too. And we discuss more of the ideas and try to make it concrete and apply it to their writing. And Meli, you take the lead a lot in coordinating the book clubs. So, I'd love to hear your take on that. And then we're going to talk about how we're going to incorporate you who are listening, who maybe are not a member, a lot of our members are listening. But those of you who are not members can also participate in this next book club reading. **Meli Walker:** 37:24 Yeah, so I think the good thing about book club, we've talked about this before, but we don't require folks to have read the book in order to participate. So that's why we invite a few of the Writerly Love members to volunteer to read the book during the months that we've assigned the book. So in March and April, we're reading *[Voice First](https://www.nebraskapress.unl.edu/nebraska/9781496231314/)* by **Sonya Huber**. And we have a few members who are reading the book, and posting about the book and slack. And then we'll have a lot of conversation about the book with those members towards the end of the period that we're reading it. So, in April, and then we'll release a podcast version of that. And we just did this process with ***Poet's Companion***. And so that's an episode that you could listen to, I believe it’s episode... **Rachel Thompson:** 38:13 Episode 68. **Meli Walker:** 38:14 It's been great to have people almost like review, the book is maybe a bit strong, but just sort of reflect on the book offer us quotes that they're finding, linking it to their own writing practice, you know, 'That I read this quote, and it helped me see this piece in this certain way. And now I'm going to try a revision past with this particular thing in mind that this author is offering to me'. And then a lot of people have good intentions to read craft books or read books at all. And, you know, I think I feel sometimes precious about my reading time. And I like the idea that we're offering writers the option to decide whether they want to spend time with a book, whether they want to request it through the library or purchase the audio book on Libero or, you know, whatever, purchase, the physical copy of the book, it gives people an option to sort of survey it and see if it's something that they would like to look at. 39:13 And then of course, not all books can be all things and so, it can be helpful to say, this craft book, or this book I'm writing is helpful for this particular aspect of the writing, whether it's writing life or whether it's specific craft or specific to a genre like the Poet's Companion. It gives people an opportunity to take or receive what they find helpful, but also leave the rest. I think that's good to remember that books as individual books, they are not everything all at once. So, I really appreciate the lead readers for drawing out what they find helpful and giving other writers, that's podcast listeners and members the opportunity to decide whether they want to read the book in full, or just take those quotations with them. You know, I like to write votes down in my notebooks. And it's all part of the process. And I think, certainly, I don't know if this is a great place to mention this. But sometimes, the book club selections, like the fact that there are craft books at all, reflect the publishing industry. So, you know, we have Felicia Rose Chavez and Matthew Salesses and there's good craft books that have come out recently that are reflecting social consciousness or offering an actual picture of diversity or offering accessible workshopping processes. But it's not always easy to find books, craft books, or books about writing, by people that reflect the true scope of life, who we have in our communities. 40:53 And so, craft books by writers of color are like, something I'm often like looking at or reading articles about and trying to find, and just the idea of being offered a publishing deal for a craft book, and then having the time to write a craft book, like, it's just a very interesting thing to consider. And so, I guess, there are so many writing books, but at the same time, there are some that just don't make the list, I guess. And I think that it's good to be discerning, as well, like at the book level, but also within each book, but also at the level of like, what's being published, what's available to us to read about craft and about writing, and who is actually writing those books. **Rachel Thompson:** 41:38 Yeah, that's great to mention all of that. I want to invite you, the listeners who would like to choose to do so, to read ***Voice First*** along with us, and look forward to that conversation that will be coming up. Because I know part of why actually people sign up to be lead readers as well is because they want the accountability, they intend to read the book. And they know they will read the book if they're going to be discussing it. So you can make that commitment to yourself right now is like I want to read this book. And I'm going to read it in time for the book club conversation that will be happening in April. So you can look forward to an episode, I think it will be out by the end of April. So you have like a month and a half to acquire and read that book. Should you choose or as Meli said, you can listen to the podcasts and decide if you want to read it at that time. 42:27 So, I do want to mention a few things that are coming up in Writerly Love. One of the things is I'm bringing back the [Revision Love](https://rachelthompson.co/revision/) course. So as of this episode coming out, registration will be open for that course. And it's happening in April, the Mag Love course will be happening in May. So again, we're doing kind of discreet programming, you can join to become a member, but you can also join discrete courses, you know, make it an a la carte experience for yourself. And the workshops. I suspect we'll be back this summer. That's what we're talking about right now. So we will keep you posted about that, offering workshops from guests on specific craft topics. 43:10 And I guess the other thing is, maybe if I can tie up what I've been saying about social media and what I've been saying about the affordability, when it comes to courses, one of the things I've been thinking of doing and the only reason I haven't or the resistance I'm feeling about it is it feels a little bit like an icky marketing thing. But I think I figured out maybe how not to make it an icky marketing thing. Or maybe I'm floating this to you, dear listeners. So you could also send me a message if what you think about it, but is the idea of having an affiliate program for members. So you know, already cringe at the word affiliate. But part of it is I don't want to pay for ads on social media, I don't want to really put a lot of marketing dollars into finding new members or finding, in particular, for membership is actually what I'm thinking of doing this for. But our members who are happy, I think would be excited to share more about the program with other potential members and be incentivized and compensated for their time, should people join as new members. And it would be also a way for that labor again to be compensated. So this is what I'm thinking of doing and trying to do it in a way that I guess telegraph's that the rationale behind it, the reasons why I might be doing it that way. 44:33 So, if you already know members in the Writerly Love community, if you are a member in the Writerly Love community, maybe this would be the way for you to either become a member or tell your friends about becoming a member. And I would only offer it to people who are already members like not to the general public because I think if you decided to do an affiliate membership that you should already know a lot about what people are getting into, you'll be able to answer questions. 45:00 And also we already call on members too like if someone writes to me and says I'm interested in becoming a member, then I will connect them often with current members to talk about the membership. So again, thinking about how to reward them thinking about how not to reward the social media magnates out there. And also thinking about just a different way of doing things. Because, as I mentioned, we have members who are now going on to book deals. And so they are less active in the day-to-day programming of the course. And there's a lifetime membership option, too. So once they've been a member, now, it's for two years, if you've been a member, you become a lifetime member. So they stay connected, they check in once in a while, but maybe don’t show up for all the calls. So we definitely need, you know, new members to come in, and keep the community active and alive. But I think you have a different way of doing it. Even as I describe this, I think, 'Oh, affiliate is just icky. I've never been one I don't have like, Amazon links on my site or anything like that. That's not really me'. But I'm just needing to do more marketing and wanting to avoid, really, for personal reasons being on social media, even though I know a lot of writers are out there. And that's how people might discover the program. **Meli Walker:** 46:16 Yeah, there's the reality of having to ensure that the programming is viable, and that the business aspect is taken care of. But also the sort of practical, logistical, the felt sense of community and friends bring other friends, it's like, that is what builds that like true line of people feeling actually connected to the content that we're producing, and the offerings of the membership. And so, I've always appreciated it when a new member joins, and they say, 'Oh, I'm a writing friend, or I'm a former colleague, or I know so and so'. And they told me about how they've been growing and their writing here. And, and so now this is what I'm hoping to get out of it. And it might not be the exact same thing. But they have the connection, a personal connection, which I think just really helps to help that new member feel welcomed as well, if they already know someone, because we're online, it's sometimes we have to work a little harder to create that communal experience. And so, yeah, my hope is that we can continue to have fresh members who have goals and wishes and dreams about their writing, that they share those with us and that we can continue to make programming that fulfills those needs. **Rachel Thompson:** 47:35 I guess the other piece of that, I have to say it does feel vulnerable talking about, 'Oh, how are we marketing things or money’s side of things'. But also, I'm thinking if I can avoid heavy marketing costs, then I will be able to keep the sliding scale option that I have as well to like- I feel like it makes sense on an intellectual level. And I'm trying to work within this economy where, you know, like a big course provider just stopped offering courses, obviously, because it wasn't economically viable for them. And I feel like there's still demand out there. And there's still need, and you and I both know Meli that just connecting with our community and the people that this program attracts on our workshops attract, they're just incredible people that I love to spend my time with. **Meli Walker:** 48:23 Yeah, it's very rewarding to see people meet their goals, even to share the rejections and things like that. So, I can understand how it would be vulnerable to share. They're supposed to be hidden. But I think it's good to be realistic and honest about how to keep this sustainable and to keep this offering alive and vibrant. **Rachel Thompson:** 48:47 I guess the other thing coming up is just that I am currently editing the *[Room](https://roommagazine.com/)* issue of ghosts, we've made one selection. That's all but we're definitely on the cusp of making several more. My assistant editor, Ellen Chang-Richardson and I are going through all of the submissions. There's more that are coming to us all the time because our first readers still have them. Actually, as of this recording today is the deadline for our first readers to send us the batch. So, I'm expecting another wave of them to come in today. That's just another way I feel connected to community, to the writing community that I love and get to read a lot of different work and I'm always learning just by reading work and understanding. Why do I want to publish this, what's working in this piece? Why do I not want to publish this and I have to say, it's been a couple years now since I edited my last issue and the selections are harder and harder because the quality of what's getting forwarded to me is really high. It can be very subtle, a very small thing that makes me go this is a maybe versus a yes. **Meli Walker:** 49:50 Right. And that's for *[Room magazine](https://roommagazine.com/)*, upcoming issue that you're editing. **Rachel Thompson:** 49:55 Yeah, Room 46.3. If you don't know about Room, you can learn more at roommagazine.com. I will include that link in the show notes for this episode. I think there are a couple other links we mentioned the books and definitely the book club reading and the invitation for you to read along with us should you wish to. And the invitation is open to feedback on this cringy affiliate idea, but it seems to me like maybe I should rebrand it or call it something else. But it does seem like maybe the best way moving forward for how we can expand our community. You know, if you're a marketing genius out there, I'd love some feedback on other ideas that don't involve me being on social media or doing like an expensive marketing plan that's going to then pass that cost along to the writers in our community. 50:49 So, I think that's it. And just thanks, everyone for listening to the state of the community. I definitely plan to be here and we have lots of exciting plans for what's next and what's coming up. I hope you enjoyed a little peak behind the scenes that went into the business side of things, went into how we do the workshop, the practice of writing and what we're seeing from members in our community. **Meli Walker:** 51:13 Thanks for sharing what's happening and letting us in on the makings of this content. I appreciate it. **Rachel Thompson:** 51:22 The Writerly love community is my warm and supportive membership community for creative writers to get together and learn about everything from writing craft and getting published to building a platform and sustaining yourself as a writer. If you're ready to learn and grow, I'd love to have you join us. 51:38 Learn more and sign up at rachelthompson.co/join. 51:42 So, that was our state of the community episode for episode number 70 of the Write, Publish and Shine podcast. You can learn more about everything that we're up to. It's housed at [rachelthompson.co](https://rachelthompson.co/). You can find out about courses, membership. 52:00 Subscribe to my letters where I thought and send out treats for writers to help them Write, Publish and Shine. So, different ideas to support your writing practice. You can sign up for those specifically at the link, rachelthompson.co/letters. 52:18 If this episode, but more specifically, if this podcast has encouraged you in any way. I would love to hear all about it. You can reach me at [hello@rachelthompson.co](mailto:hello@rachelthompson.co) and I would love it also if you are getting something out of the podcast for you to tell other luminous writers about this podcast. You can do this by sending them to rachelthompson.co/podcast or encouraging them to search for Write, Publish and Shine wherever they get their podcasts. 52:47 Thank you for listening, I encourage you to keep writing luminously! 52:53 I am a guest in the South Sinai, Egypt, on the lands of the el Muzzina Bedouin. **Meli Walker:** 53:00 This is Meli Walker recording from unceded W̱SÁNEĆ (wah-SAY—netch) territories.
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