80 // The Making of Room 46.3 Featuring Jennifer Cox & Yukti Narang (Ghosts #1)

SPEAKERS:

1. Yukti Narang
2. Jennifer Cox
3. Rachel Thompson

Rachel Thompson:  00:01

Welcome luminous writers to the Write, Publish and Shine podcast. I am your host, author and literary magazine editor Rachel Thompson. This podcast explores how to write and share your brilliant writing with the world. In each episode, we delve into specifics on how to polish and prepare your writing for publication, and the journey from emerging writer to published author.

00:27

Welcome, dear writer to the first day in a series of special episodes of Write, Publish and Shine as I take you on a deep dive, let’s say into the creation of Room magazine issue 46.3, where I was lead editor of the issue.

00:43

Being the lead editor at Room basically means that we are selecting the pieces that get forwarded to us by the first reader and curating them into an issue. We’re commissioning a writer, we’re conducting a feature interview, and filling in a few of the other pieces. We also have reviews, although there’s a special reviews editor who does that part of things, and I will be talking with them in an upcoming episode. So

01:09

This issue Room magazine 46.3, was on the theme of Ghosts, and it is now available up at roommagazine.com.

01:18

A little bit about Room if you’re unfamiliar, we publish Creative Writing four times per year in a print journal, and we now offer digital issues as well. I have been part of Room’s rotating roster of editors for over a decade now and it’s always a wild ride. It’s a lot of work to jump into an issue, especially when you haven’t edited for a while. My last issue, my issue right before this as editor with the journal was 43.3. So, every number of that volume means a year in the life, so that means it was three years since I had edited an issue and that one was on the theme of Neurodivergence, I had a great time doing that issue. But I don’t always have a lot of time to edit issues. In fact, as a collective, we really like to make space for new editors to learn a lot of Room’s mission is to help bring new editors into the literary community and to create a really diverse intersectional community of editors working on our magazine so that we have a lot of different communities that maybe haven’t been heard from as much that can come more to the forefront within our writing and literary scene in CanLit and in the international literature. Of course, in those three years since I edited an issue, my colleagues created really beautiful issues of Room. I may have worked as a proofreader here and there or doing some other things behind the scenes, certainly always as a reader and submitting work to the issue editor. But I wasn’t editing issues with Room in those three years.

02:56

And I wasn’t working on the issue alone; each issue of Room has a production team, in my case my Assistant Editor was Ellen Chang-Richardson, who also conducted our feature interview for the issue with Manahil Bandukwala. More on that coming up in episodes. More behind the scenes, we had Shadow Editors as well, which is part of our apprecentiship program and part really hard works as both our shadows, Melissa Barrientos and Lena Belova did multiple proofreading for the issue and helped with our planning from the beginning. And we were suppoted by our managing editor, Shrishti Uprety, our publisher Nara Monteiro (MonTAYro) and our book reviewer Michah Killjoy, who I mentioned before as someone who will be coming up in one of the upcoming episodes.

03:48

About the ghost issue itself, this is the call for submissions that we put out. We said:

03:53

Come haunt us. Room seeks writers of marginalized genders for poems full of folklore, creative nonfiction on rattling encounters, transient fiction, and other such spirited words. Send us writing and visual art that is acutely aware of the apparitions around us. Show us the spectres, the relationships with revenants, the ancestries of time and place, the imprints, and the echoes. We want your best work in any genre, work that breaks with traditional form, for Room issue 46.3, Ghosts, edited by Rachel Thompson, Ellen Chang-Richardson, Melissa Barrientos, and Lena Belova.

04:41

And then we said the submissions window was November 1, 2022 to January 5, 2023.

04:48

If you’re listening to this episode, right when it comes out, and you might be noting then that submissions closed in January, and we’re only just recently—early September—able to hold the issue in our hands. It takes a village and it takes a long time to produce a literary print journal, Room’s literary print journal, but I’m pretty sure that’s true for a lot of print publications.

05:10

That was the call for submissions, and many, many writers headed the call. Of course, we couldn’t say yes to all of them, unfortunately. And believe me, especially if you were one of the people who submitted, we turned down some brilliant work just because it didn’t quite fit our vision, or for more arbitrary reasons like it didn’t fit our page count.  Or maybe we had something similar, and we were going in a different way. There’s just so many things that go into our choices.

05:37

But we did say enthusiastic YES’s to many writers. And you will hear from two of those writers in this episode, specifically two poets in the issue.

05:48

These are Jennifer Cox and Yukti Narang both submitted work that Ellen and I thought were very suitable for our ghosts theme and worked well with the tone we wanted to strike in the issue.

06:00

As you’ll hear in Jennifer’s poem, The Intubation Choir, created a conundrum for us at first that we resolved by working directly with her.

06:08

So, I really do want to peel back a little bit of the editorial process that went into the selections and working with these writers. And so, up first, right away is my conversation with poet, Jennifer Cox, who published what turned out to be the opening poem, the one that set the tone for *Room* 46.3, Ghosts.

06:31

I want to welcome you, Jennifer Cox to the Write, Publish and Shine podcast. Thank you for being here to talk about your experience of publishing in Room’s Ghosts issue.

Jennifer Cox:  06:40

Thanks for having me. Excited to be here.

Rachel Thompson:  06:42

I want to start just with the ‘Why ‘.

06:44

Why did you submit “The Intubation Choir” to Room’s Ghosts Issue? Or had you specifically targeted that issue with your submission?

Jennifer Cox:  06:54

No, it’s pretty rare that I write for submission. This one I had written months prior. But I had submitted it a lot and it kept getting rejected, and I was like it’s just really weird poem. Like, it’s unlike most things I’ve written and unlike, most things I have read, and I just thought, like ghosts and haunting. I was like, yeah, this fits, so then I submitted it.

Rachel Thompson:  07:14

It is a wonderfully weird poem. I think it is weirdness for sure, is something that attracted me to it right away. I kept coming back to it and saying, I want to find a place for this in the issue. When I was working with my assistant editor, Ellen Chang Richardson, who is also a poet and amazing, award winning poet. We both feel like there’s something here. Then also, though, we had some ideas for what we might want to do, so that we can conditionally accept the poem. For me, that is not something we do very often. Usually, poems are kind of like a binary yes or no, it’s sort of like the visual, behind the scenes. That’s my experience, seeing what other editors do as well, it’s not very common to do a lot of heavy editing on poems, but knowing that I wanted it to be part of the issue, because it has this collective point of view. That’s really interesting. Then it really resonated with the spectre as people listening can tell from the title that it is about the intubation, and there’s this whole respiratory illness pandemic that so many people were intubated in, and it feels part of like that aspect of ghosts and longing and sort of experience that we collectively went through; I am just wondering, though, when we sent you that email saying,

“Oh, yes, we would like to accept it. But we have these ideas, if you are willing.”

08:37

What was that like for you?

Jennifer Cox:  08:38

I thought it was great, actually. I have never had a piece of writing that wasn’t improved by someone else’s opinion, and obviously, everyone else’s opinion. But like with that piece, in particular, I have this like a vision of what I wanted to be, which was this, like, someone is plopped into this new space that feels kind of weird, and somewhere between like a life and death, and there’s this impossible thing happening, which is that all these people are intubated, and yet they’re singing. So, it’s like a willingness to cling to life, when it seems impossible to do so. It’s a weird concept, right? Like, how do you end on that concept? I played with different endings, I played with everyone leaves and that person is just left. They’re all alone, and like just singing by themselves. I played with, I rarely remember what the ending was that I sent. But I really liked the adaptation where it’s just so ambiguous where you just have this like, hope that what you’re doing is going to land you on the right side of whatever this liminal spaces.

09:39

I thought that was really good. There’s almost no writing I’ve ever done that hasn’t been improved by someone else, coming in being like,

“Oh, I like this.”

09:45

And like being,

09:46

“That’s good. What about this angle?”

09:48

So, that was cool.

Rachel Thompson:  09:49

I’m so glad you received it that way, because it really was done with love Ellen and I had a editorial meeting and then we thought let’s just maybe go through line by line and talk about what we think is really working. You already mentioned too, one of our suggestion was to end a little bit earlier and leave it more ambiguous. I think myself just in my own writing, too, and I’m sure Ellen would agree to you that often it’s sort of like ending earlier is a good revision practice for when we’re looking at our poems. Going, okay, maybe we went a little bit further, and we can leave it a little bit more open.

10:24

Thank you for receiving that that way. Because that was definitely it was like delighting in the writing and the concept. I should say, too, it wasn’t like, major changes. It was just like,

“Oh, can we move this line here? And maybe take this little part out?”

Jennifer Cox:  10:38

It was a reworking of some parts of it.

Rachel Thompson:  10:41

Yeah.

10:42

Is there anything else that you want to share about submitting and publishing with Room? Was this the first time that you’d submitted to us?

Jennifer Cox:  10:50

No, not the first time I have submitted. For the first time, I’d even accepted. I found the submission process the same as almost any other major Canadian lit mag submission process. But in the acceptance side, because it was this conditional acceptance that was really unique, I have a variety of group chats with other writers, and I was like,

“Hey, I got a conditional acceptance isn’t that crazy?”

11:12

And they’re like,

“That is crazy! Congratulations!”

11:16

That kind of made that acceptance piece rather unique, but not that different from other pieces that I’ve had accepted where they say,

“Well, thank you, we’re excited to publish this piece. Here’s a small number of changes.”

11:28

Usually, they’re like, capitalizations or maybe removing one word. But it was just, I think, like a more intense version of what it looks like. Otherwise, we’re in a non-conditional acceptance.

Rachel Thompson:  11:40

Yeah. And we definitely wanted it to be your choice. So, we didn’t want to accept it, and then kind of force changes on you, too, because it definitely was more than what we normally do, which I think you’re right is like capitalization or saying,

“Oh, are you sure you want this space here?”

11:57

Usually, actually, we will go with what the poet says,

“No, those spaces are very important to my poem, and that’s why I put them there.”

12:03

And we’re like,

“Okay, good. We just wanted to make sure.”

12:06

I think it was kind of fun. It’s nice to talk about this process. Because I mean, it does happen once in a while. With some journals, maybe that’s their work, that’s what they do every time they’re like, they have a very specific vision and want to have a hand in your work. I would say though, for us, it didn’t come from wanting to have a hand in the work, necessarily, but just like, it’s either going to be… Like for us, we didn’t feel it was totally finished at the end, I guess, too. So, it was like, either it has to be a no or maybe we can try it with this conditional acceptance thing. I’m glad it worked.

Jennifer Cox:  12:36

Yes. I get the impression from a lot of magazines that they would love to do things like that, and don’t have capacity to do them, too.

Rachel Thompson:  12:44

Yeah, and with Room I would say that is true. Most of the time, if a piece doesn’t feel finished, we’ll just say,

“No”

12:50

Because we get so much work. We get a lot of work that is great. But it’s a testament to this idea and the voice that you had in it because there was just enough there that we’re like,

“No, we need to make this work.”

Jennifer Cox:  13:03

I wrote this poem from what I gathered from like a couple of different inspiration points. But I had previously written a poem, I wasn’t debated, which is how the poem came up. I’d previously written a different poem about being intubated, and it was accepted one place, and then I withdrew at other places, and almost everywhere I withdrew it from they were like,

“We loved this, if you have ever have anything else like this, we want to have it.”

13:23

I was like, oh, maybe I should write more stuff. That was one of the things that eventually led to like this particular poem coming up. It’s an unusual topic. It’s an unusual subject. It fits really well on a lot of themes within poetry that are very attractive.

Rachel Thompson:  13:40

Tell me more about that. Because I mean, I’m sorry that that happened, actually. I’m so sorry, what’s not. Oh, how wonderful for you. But isn’t that the writers mind is like, oh, great, something to write about. But maybe it’s something more about the themes and sort of how you felt like it played with those poetic big ideas.

Jennifer Cox:  14:00

Yeah, so one of the places that it came from as I said, just like this want to like, how do I write more about this experience? Nothing was really coming up with very good, honestly, I was just like, just be like, I want to write something, doesn’t mean the poems actually, I would say.

14:15

Then I read Conyer Clayton’s book, But the Sun, and the Ships, and the Fish, and the Waves, which is like all about this like a dreamscape. I was like, oh, yeah, like I can pull from dreams. So, I kind of like pulled from dreams I had while I was intubated. Also, just kind of various other ways of thinking about it and kind of came up with this little liminal space that I wrote about. What I also like it was like a poem that came from poems. Like it was that poem inspired by a variety of different poems to take the ship that I ultimately had.

Rachel Thompson:  14:48

I love that and actually, I published Conyer in the last issue, a Room that I edited so it’s kind of great seeing one sort of leading to the next. I love that inspiration that happens.

15:00

I’m wondering if I can talk to you about your submission practice, and just how often do you submit? Because you talked about submitting this piece to other places, and other places telling you maybe more about this topic. How often do you submit your writing to lit mags, and just how do you choose when and where to submit?

Jennifer Cox:  15:17

I submit so sporadically. Sometimes I’ll submit like 50 things within a month of announcement for months. This year, I had a couple goals in my submission, I wanted to be published in some bigger Canadian lit mags, and I was published in Room and I was published an ARC this year, which is great. But the flip side of that is, you end up being published less configure focusing on major Canadian lit mag, so I was much more intentional this year, about where I was submitting to and what I was submitting to, and had some success with that. But I also like being published more. So, I think I’m going to kind of give it back a little bit. Then at my submission process a little bit more, but I’m very sporadic about it. Like writing poetry is something I do in my so-called spare time. I don’t work in my regular work and parenting hours. So, it kind of comes with the seasons of how busy I am. And truly, when I submit it’s usually at like 10pm. So, I can get those like done pm times, like visually edit the poems and up and like send them out and determine is, is this magazine? Is it a good one? Is it good fit?

16:25

Also, I try to submit the full number. So, if they ask for six poems, I try to submit six poems, because I’ve just found that you never know what the different entities are going to like. So, just throwing stuff out there that you think is good, and seeing what sticks is probably more success than I thought, and often people accept poems. I was like, oh, okay, great. Yeah, I didn’t know you would. So, that’s most of my experience. I tried to have a lot of things out at any given time, just because you never really know when there’s, especially when it’s free, or very, very cheap, like 3 dollars to submit. It’s like something that I can do. So, I just try to do as much as I can, and like 80%, say no, which is fine. If you send out 10 in a month, then one’s going to be like, yeah, that’s exciting, right? You just don’t really know.

Rachel Thompson:  17:11

I love what you’re doing in terms of volume, because I think that really does help because it’s really, it’s just a numbers game too, like, even for this issue, we turned down a lot of great work for various reasons. Sometimes it was just fit too. It’s like, oh, we only have so many pages, and we don’t have room for this piece.

Jennifer Cox:  17:30

I got several letters, several rejection letters this year, that said, essentially, that they were like,

“We really liked your work, submit again, some time, it’s not right for this issue.”

17:38

I like that too, like getting that level of no, why is very encouraging, and very nice as well.

Rachel Thompson:  17:44

Yeah, that’s a major win, I would say, to get that kind of feedback, because then you know, okay, I can just turn around and send that elsewhere and it is going to be published soon.

Jennifer Cox:  17:53

Yeah.

Rachel Thompson:  17:54

I also want to touch on what you said about submitting a full package like a packet of poems, because I’ve interviewed so many editors, and I’ve asked a lot of them, would you prefer to get one single poem or a full package. And there was only one editor has ever said they want to get a single poem, and that’s the former editor, poetry editor at ARC. So, even that editor is not editing anymore. So, I would say, definitely, the packet idea is a good one. I think one of the reasons is because as editors, we want to see just how you’re taking your craft, and like how you understand, how your poems work together, your selection of the poems that you submit, even if it’s like, okay, well, these ones don’t really work. But I’m just kind of get a sense of the poet too. So…

Jennifer Cox:  18:34

That’s interesting. I know, some places will accept like three poems. Then they’ll take out the pieces like three poems by whoever, and when I read those, I’m never really sure. It’s like, am I submitting this as a package? Like, am I showing these five poems as a five poem package? Or am I showing like five poems individually? So, I’ve taken to writing in my cover letter to say, I’m submitting each of these columns as a package, individually, because I’ve never really sure what that particular magazine, how they might treat them, I’m taking and doing both, I’m just trying to cover myself up, and they’ll do what they want with it to. They will decide. That’s how they want to approach.

Rachel Thompson:  19:11

That’s true. For us, it was really important to publish a lot of writers. So, I think there may be two places where we pick more than one poem that is really good to cover those bases in that cover letter. Let people know.

Jennifer Cox:  19:23

Yeah. Also, I’m a lawyer. I feel like that’s my like lawyer brain being like, and, and, and…

Rachel Thompson:  19:31

Let me make sure I have all the clauses in my cover letter.

Jennifer Cox:  19:34

I am a person who reads like the fine print very thoroughly.

Rachel Thompson:  19:39

Okay, so now that you said that, which I didn’t know, how do you think that your reading as a lawyer influences your writing? Like is there is some kind of relationship between those two modes?

Jennifer Cox:  19:51

Yeah, definitely. I only came to poetry a couple of years ago, actually, after I became parent to kind of get back to poetry, but I’ve been writing extensively every day for the past, like 15 plus years in academia, and then as a lawyer, and it’s very similar, like, it’s a very careful choice of words, it’s very careful, like, home intonation, like, what are you trying to convey? How do these few words make magic? So, it’s a very, like similar skill. But yeah, I find it’s very easy to go from one to the other. I keep trying to write a legal poem, in some ways, like using legal language. I find it really hard, I have a trouble… The same skills apply, but I have trouble taking like language from one, and like applying it to the other.

20:37

Many, many people recommended, Whereas to me, which is a book by hopefully Layli Long Soldier, it’s wonderful, and she does exactly that. I’ve been kind of studying it recently, because I love what she does, and how she does it, and how she takes this legal language and applies it in this case, like in the colonialization context. It’s an interesting play with words.

Rachel Thompson:  21:00

Excellent. I’ll make sure to put that in our show notes. So, listeners can find that book as well. You said it’s Whereas, and the author’s name again?

Jennifer Cox:  21:07

Layli Long Soldier, Layli, L A Y L I, and then Long Soldier, two words, it’s a beautiful book.

Rachel Thompson:  21:15

Thank you. That’s just really cool, the attention to language. Of course, when you say that it makes sense that both of those, both poet and lawyer is very specific in their word choices. So, that’s really cool, thanks for telling us about that.

21:29

I’m wondering about feedback for your writing, you’ve already talked about the excitement of getting those kinds of positive rejections, it’s what I’ll call them today. How do you handle feedback, both good and bad about your writing? Like how do you take that as a writer?

Jennifer Cox:  21:42

I think I handled bad feedback better than I handled good feedback. I get good feedback, and I’m like, is it really good? But I’m learning to accept that, yes, sometimes it is good, or this person enjoyed it, because there’s so much of subjectivity to it.

21:55

I handle it pretty well, I think because I go into it very openly, like I came back to writing poetry after I became a parent, but I was like a teenager and as a preteen, I wrote a lot. I did a tonne of creative writing, before I kind of pivoted to more professional academic writing. I was really protective of everything I wrote, I was so scared that people wouldn’t like it, and when I came back to writing as a parent, and after being a professional for a long time, and having also took a peek over my work, I found it more joyful. My husband, my wonderful husband reads a lot of my work, and his feedback is almost always, it’s good.

Rachel Thompson:  22:34

The least helpful, but very kind feedback you can receive, right?

Jennifer Cox:  22:38

How did it work? And he’s like, I don’t know what to tell you. I liked it. So, I’m very receptive to feedback, and not all feedback, necessarily, it’s something to work with. But all of it is helpful. Like, I have another poem, which has received several positive rejection letters, and I’m still trying to get published, and part of it like a group that were like workshops, poems, and one thing within that poem that they all had feedback on is they have a line, something about like a 16th day, and everyone in the group took something different from that 16th day, that’ll stream that they read the poem, and none of it was what I was going for. And so, that was really, really helpful, because I was like, okay, I’m sending people in the wrong direction. Let’s revisit that. So. I think all type of feedback given in good faith is useful. I felt really receptive too.

Rachel Thompson:  23:28

What you’re saying is sort of music to my ears. It’s been great. You’re the second person I’ve interviewed for this, and both of you, I’m like, yes, I’m going to check off everything you say. But in particular, what you say about that kind of feedback, I think, because I’ve been thinking a lot about workshop, I run a workshop as well, too. It’s like, the kind of feedback that says,

“I’m confused.”

Is the most helpful feedback, because that’s something it’s like, it’s not a solution. It’s just saying I don’t understand, and then you can work with that. But then there’s the other kind of feedback, sometimes it’s a bit more prescriptive, and those are the ones to really measure and be considered more fully before you accept it. So, that’s a great example of that. It’s like everyone was confused. I’m going to fix it, but I don’t need to explain it to them either at this point.

Jennifer Cox:  24:11

In this group, we do a lot of unconfused, and also prescriptive. A lot of it is like, we can read where someone’s going within a poem, like where they want to be and then fill out a word and be like, it might be better to use this type of word, because you’re already in this kind of portrait of the landscape. Like what if you swap this, and so, I find workshopping poems together is really, really helpful.

Rachel Thompson:  24:31

I quite agree. I want to bring you to our Quick Lit round, which doesn’t have to be quick, but it is kind of like a fill in the blanks. In fact, it often isn’t. So, take this whatever way you want to, but I’m going to start a sentence and then ask you to finish it. So, the first is,

24:48

Being a writer is…

Jennifer Cox:  24:50

Fun.

Rachel Thompson:  24:52

That’s great.

24:54

Literary Magazines are…

Jennifer Cox:  24:56

Interesting, and complex.

Rachel Thompson:  24:58

Editing requires…

Jennifer Cox:  25:00

Focus.

Rachel Thompson:  25:02

Then rejection for a writer means…

Jennifer Cox:  25:04

Nothing.

Rachel Thompson:  25:05

That is a very measured response. That’s good. That’s like the middle way that we all kind of strive for equilibrium.

25:16

Then finally writing community is…

Jennifer Cox:  25:18

Needed.

Rachel Thompson:  25:20

Is there anything else that you wanted to tell writers about your practice or anything at all?

Jennifer Cox:  25:27

I mean, I think it is a practice of anything else. Like it’s not something that you get right. Or that you get wrong. It’s just a practice. It’s something I continue to practice and have a little bit success at, and more success at. I think, sometimes they’ll come up to you with a, you succeed or you don’t. It’s not that. It’s like a practice as a career. It’s a, you show up every day and you do things, or you show up when you aren’t able to show up when you do this.

Rachel Thompson:  25:56

It’s striking me that also, it’s called law practice as well, too. So, there’s another parallel between this.

Jennifer Cox:  26:01

Oh, yeah. I think being a lawyer has dramatically affected how I come back to it, because it lets me just let it be joyful. I very much like that. It’s, writing poetry writing, creative writing, is not my job. Like, I don’t have to rely on that income, and so that lets it be a space of joy. Like, I can put it down when I need to put it down, I can go to work when I need it. Then it is like a creative thing with objectives. I think that like as a side career, but it’s not like it’s foods on my table. And so, that lets me keep it joyful and keep it productive and not get too bogged down.

Jennifer Cox:  26:42

If I get a rejection, it also lets me not take that personally, because it isn’t personal. I’ve been rejected by so many people in my life, and things I’ve really wanted and things I haven’t, that I wanted a lot less, and the wins I needed some, it keeps going. So, that’s kind of been my attitude in philosophy. I like to think of it as a series of wins. None of those things would have gotten if I hadn’t just submitted or haven’t just applied or reached out. Those are all the wins, and everything else is stuff that you didn’t have anywhere.

Rachel Thompson:  27:13

I love that. Thanks, Jennifer.

Jennifer Cox:  27:16

Of course.

Rachel Thompson:  27:18

Before we get to my next guest, Yukti Narang, I’m stepping away from these interviews to let you know about the Write, Publish, Shine Intensive, currently open for registration, but not for much longer as of this recording.

27:32

This is my intensive course that brings together all of the goodness of my three courses on generating, revising, and publishing your work, plus much more.

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This holistic intensive takes writers through the journey of developing new, luminous writing with lots of feedback, training to help you skilfully edit your work, and a custom-tailored plan to submit your writing for publication. You’ll finish the program with completed short works of writing already submitted for publication to places that most fit your voice.

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Do you crave support and structure so you can write your most luminous work?

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Maybe your writing practice has slipped and you need deadlines, encouraging feedback and help to hone in on your unique voice, where you feel overwhelmed about where to begin, when it comes to revising your writing and want to develop your editorial skills. Or maybe you don’t know what to send lit mags or whether there’s a place out there for your unique voice. (I’m speaking incredibly quickly because I have children talking in the background during this ad read. So, I hope you appreciate how this is real. This is real. This is really happening folks during the outreach.)

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At the end of the Write, Publish and Shine Intensive you will have polished several stories, poems or hybrid work, you’ll have submitted your work to publications that fit you.  You’ll have prepared for a big “YES” for your writing and your writing dreams. And you will have found your place in a community of writers.

28:58

You already know me if you’re listening to this, as the host of the Write, Publish, and Shine Podcast, and I am also a literary magazine editor (with Room), which you also know, because I’ve been talking all about it this episode. I’m also a published author, and online course instructor here to help you publish your most luminous work. In the intensive program, I help you every step of the way to write, publish, and shine with personal feedback and support.

29:21

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30:00

That’s rachelthompson.co/intensive, to learn more and register.

30:06

So that was my conversation with Jennifer Cox talking about her poetry and approach to writing and submitting. I loved hearing about the overlap between being a lawyer and a poet. How interesting that they’re both practices. Of course, they’re both practices, but it just clicked for me in that conversation. And I just loved connecting with her about the process, we went through with her poem, Intubation choir. I will share the link to the book Whereas by **Layli Long Soldier in the show notes for this episode. So, don’t be concerned about that. In fact, we work hard to make sure that everything that’s referenced in each episode appears in the show notes.

30:42

This is episode 80. So that would be up at rachelthompson.co/podcast/80.

30:50

Up next, we have Yukti Narang a writer who spoke to me from New Delhi, India. Because of our mandate and funding, one thing you should know about Room is, we largely publish writing from what is colonially known as Canada, Room but also publishes work from around the world. And I will say that if we accept work from international contributors it’s because it’s very exceptional, because we are limited in the amount of space that we can give to non-Canadian writers. And Yukti’s poem was definitely that. And that’s a function again of funding that happens within the Canadian writing system. So, Yukti’s poem was definitely that. Very, very exceptional.

31:30

I will warn you that we mildly spoil her poem that has a beautiful twist in it, because we kind of had to talk about its creation. And I asked to get these permission, and we went ahead and did it. But if you have a copy of Room Ghosts, or want to grab one now to read before you’re spoiled, please do.

31:47

Again, they are available digitally as well at roommagazine.com.

31:52

And then come back to listen because Yukti has some incredibly illuminating advice about how she approaches writing and submitting her work to journals. So, there are must-listen insights on the process coming up in my conversation with Yukti Narang.

32:08

Thank you so much for agreeing to be on the podcast Yukti. I wanted to start by asking you,

32:14

Why did you submit your beautifully creepy poem, “The Evil One” to Room’s Ghosts Issue?

Yukti Narang:  32:20

When I heard about the open call that Room had done, which they often do, I’ve always read Room as a magazine, I’ve really admired it. And it’s one of the magazines that I really wanted to be published in. When I saw that this particular issue was themed as ghost, I was even more interested, because it’s one of the speculative genres that I really like. And I knew that okay, if it’s ghost, then I have to be in it. That’s what I told myself when I started writing for Room. And I submitted around five poems, for room. And all the pieces I wrote specifically for Room. But then I submitted them simultaneously to other magazines as well. It was just a very good opportunity for me to submit at Room with a themed issue, specifically, because when you’re really aiming to publish with a magazine like this, especially if it’s been an older magazine, and it is paid, and there are multiple things that we have to take care of, then you have to be very specific. So, that’s when I thought that theme is going to narrow it down a little bit for me and the editors, and you.

33:27

I read a little bit about the people that will go into reading it. And then I wrote it based on a little set of ideas that I had. I was hoping that all of them would be different from each other. But a funny thing that really happened to me was that out of all the five pieces, this one was probably my fifth favourite. I thought the other four would probably be chosen first. And this one got picked. Sometimes that just happens, it’s so subjective what people will like, but I’m really happy they chose this one because it tells a story to a reader. Even if it’s not a short story. It’s a poem. But that’s how I always aim to write poetry. It always has to tell a story, whether it has characters in it or not. But it has to be somebody’s story in a form of verse.

Rachel Thompson:  34:16

Yes, I love the story in this poem so much. I loved hearing how you had ranked your own poems and then we picked the one that you didn’t necessarily think was going to be our first choice. But you’re right, it’s so subjective, and it’s just so kind of random in some cases that what ends up in the magazine, although with that said, I do recall this was an early choice for us. We’re early on in the decision making process. My assistant editor, Ellen Chang Richardson, and I were like,

“No, we have to get this one. Let’s take this one.”

34:45

One thing about your poem, I think that made us intrigued in the evil one is something that I don’t want to spoil but I’m going to, a little bit, just because it’s so fascinating and I hope it further encourages readers to seek it out and read it, to see how you do this so artistically, which is that deliberate shift from, what I’ll term as “prey to predator”. So, it’s left as kind of an open question, who is the evil one, the “man whose spirit plays with swords” or the speaker?

35:13

Can you tell us a little bit about that choice? And how you went about that in the poem and the storytelling of the poem?

Yukti Narang:  35:20

Yes, that was extremely deliberate. I think when people reach the end of the poem, they will realize that it was a choice that I made, because one of the characters, without spoiling too much, one of the characters was in a mind frame, where they were scared of the other character. And she, being somebody who had her own home, she constantly felt this eerie presence around her, and there was so much that she was thinking about, and she just wanted to escape that place because she didn’t know where she could run away to. And eventually, with her mind, she started thinking about different things that she could do to that ghost or the spirit, whoever that was, in her mind. And her thoughts got so haunted, and so creepy, that she scared herself, and eventually started thinking, Is it me? Or is it the other person who’s the spirit?

36:16

Even at the end of the poem, I hoped that the reader will decide as per their own mindset, who the spirit would be. Because it could be mental… Maybe it could be something that was just in her mind, maybe it could be something that was true, but it’s a little open ended. But it’s definitely creepy to think that, today, if I look at a ghost, and then I figure out tomorrow that oh, I am the ghost for that person. That would be really, really fun, right? To be the one.

Rachel Thompson:  36:44

For sure.

Yukti Narang:  36:45

Hope not. But this particular character, the setting that would be really interesting for the reader.

Rachel Thompson:  36:51

Yes. It was, for this reader, for sure.

Yukti Narang:  36:54

Thanks.

Rachel Thompson:  36:55

You talked a bit about the experience of submitting and that you simultaneously submitted but then you wrote the work for this themed issue, which I love, because I think a lot of writers do that, where they’re like, I’m going to use the themes out there to drive me to create new work. And I just love that strategy. We call it a strategy. I don’t know if you do, but that’s how I think it is. It is a strategy for writing.

37:18

What was the actual publication process with us?

Yukti Narang:  37:22

So, Room is a magazine, like I told you that I have read before. I really admire it. It’s one of the publications that when you get published in it, you feel like my work is being appreciated, and I’m on the right track, in terms of my career as a writer in literature. And in terms of also just understanding that people who are in this space, people who read good literature, understand what writing and storytelling is are choosing my work. So, it’s a good thing that I’m on the right path.

37:53

Sometimes I feel like your work has to also resonate with your readers, no matter how brilliant it is, or what path you are on, and not everybody is going to like your work at the end of the day. But if a larger set of people are liking it, and if it gets acknowledged in this stream, then I feel a little validated also.

38:13

With Room, the experience was extremely beautiful. And the day that I hadn’t even gotten up. So, I have this funny fact that as soon as I get up, I check my emails. So, two or three things I do. One of those is checking what publications have said yes, who has not picked my work, all of that. So, with this particular space, Room did not take a lot of time, but because I had also simultaneously submitted my work… When you get a few rejections continuously, you feel like, oh, okay, let’s open and see what’s in it. So, when I opened Room, I had zero expectations. I opened the email, I was like, oh, okay, another one, maybe. And when I opened it, and you picked this one, I was really, really happy. Because this was like one of my goals, especially given the theme.

39:04

So, obviously, whether you send in something that did not resonate with the editor once in a while, if that happens, you can send it again. But the fact that this magazine was doing this issue meant a lot to me. So, I was happy that this happened. A little manifestation also, here and there. I think it’s important. But the experience is really good. Because starting from you to everybody who emailed me and the technical issues, if I faced any, were result within a day or two. And I’m still in the process of speaking with some people, submitted it again, because there is a timeframe that you have to avoid. But after that, you can do it again. So, I’m hoping to publish with Room.

Rachel Thompson:  39:46

Yeah, you just can’t publish and back to back issues. So yeah, resubmitting after a little bit of time is great.

Yukti Narang:  39:53

I think they don’t publish you in consecutive issues, but also not more than twice a year. So, out of the four you can submit two. So, that timeframe has passed. So, I submitted again, which is a non-themed issue. But I think the themes are also really important.

40:09

I think that was really good to share the space with Room. It was really nice. Looking at all of the other magazine covers and yours in it, and the announcements and everything, it’s really exciting.

Rachel Thompson:  40:21

We were having a lot of fun behind the scenes, I think that maybe showed but I’m really glad it resonated with you, too.

Yukti Narang:  40:27

Yes, I’d love to hear some stories of that.

Rachel Thompson:  40:30

Actually, now that you say that maybe I’ll include that in this series, because I’m doing a whole series on behind the scenes of Room. So, I’ll be sure that Ellen and I talked a bit about that at one point in this series as well. Thank you for that interest in for planting that seed for me, because I think it’s true that people really were excited about this theme, too. I think that was sort of mutual, all of us were just excited. There was something about the time and the place that we were doing this, I guess, maybe not the place because we’re all over the world, the time definitely.

Yukti Narang:  40:59

Absolutely. And I think Room has so many readers across the globe that international shipping takes a little bit of time for you to get the magazine. So, I’m also waiting on my copies and to get some extra copies from Room. And by the time I get the ghost issue, it will probably be fall. So, it will be more- So, I can read it at that time, other people’s work also.

Rachel Thompson:  41:20

That’s so great. So, you talked a bit about how you’ve already resubmitted to Room, and that room is like a target magazine for you. Because our listeners are also emerging writers who are submitting to journals, I wanted to ask you just a bit about your own strategy. Like,

41:37

How often do you submit your writing to lit mags? How do you choose when and where to submit?

Yukti Narang:  41:43

I submit very often, just to give you a little background, I am a writer in literature and cinema as well. Emerging in both. So, when I plan my works, it’s always one book, one film or some short film, and I’m trying to figure out what pieces I am working on. But even if something is a part of a poetry collection, if it’s a part of a chat book or a book that I’m going to include it in, it still all right to submit those books to magazines. In fact, if that happens, I think it will increase our chances of speaking to publishers, because magazines like Room or other magazines that are doing very well, in the literary space, I have accepted it.

42:27

What I do is, I plan maybe a day and in fact, I have a collection or a list of publications that are open to submissions, I either save that or list that. And probably once or twice a week I sit down and I submit to most of them that fit either the work I have already. Or if I really liked the magazine and its themes, or if I’m looking forward, or if I have been looking forward to it, then I write based on their theme of based on what they are doing at that particular time. So, can I name the magazines? If that’s all right?

Rachel Thompson:  43:01

Yeah, I’d love for you to do that.

Yukti Narang:  43:03

For example, if one story or the Paris Review are opening, their open call is happening, maybe next month, I will plan some pieces 15 or 20 days before, so that I can write them, edit them and then send it across. So, I’ll have plenty of time to reread my work, which is also very important, because one week later, you have a different perspective on your own book. So, this can be sure about it.

43:29

Sometimes you’re so excited that you just submitted in the day. If you get lucky, then everybody likes it. But maybe planning a little bit ahead.

43:39

What I’ve learned in the process of being published in all the magazines that I have been published in is that when you know the people who are behind the magazine, it will increase your chances of being published, irrespective of the fact that whether your piece is beautiful or not, but sometimes it will just not fit a magazine. So, knowing a little bit about the magazine, maybe reading it, like Room has different editors for each issue. It’s a difficult magazine to crack. But if you just know what they’re expecting and what the literary space expects from them in return, it will be really nice.

44:18

But at the end of the day, there is no theme and if you have it in a piece that you love, and you feel like it’s a piece that everybody should read, and it’s a story that you want to tell then it’s okay, you can submit it to multiple places. If it’s really that good, then they will take it. It’s like a combination of certain factors that you have to be sure. But in storytelling, the emotion always comes in everything, right? So, you have to be sure of the technicalities, but at the end of the day, if you believe in your story, then I think other people will too.

Rachel Thompson:  44:51

Also you’re really astute in going Room is a difficult place to crack because we rotate editors, you never know who’s going to be on the team and what their face will be. One of the things I try to tell the writers that I work with, and the writers I speak with on this podcast, too, is like, what that means is it really is quite arbitrary whether your piece is accepted or not. So, do not take it too personally, because one editor maybe didn’t go for it. But the next editor, maybe will, too. So, don’t rule Room out just because they said no to you once, because as you said, there’s multiple editors.

Yukti Narang:  45:25

One more thing that I really noticed, or maybe I figured it out through the process is that even I am an emerging writer, so it’s not like I’ve cracked every magazine, or every publishing houses. Always you have new questions every day, about the different mediums that you worked in. But what I have figured is that, for example, if you know that there is a particular poetry editor, or a fiction editor, or a different genre editor, and you know the masthead beforehand, sometimes that can also help you in the way that, okay, you know that this person is going to be reading your work. Sometimes we will like the work that they resonate with, and sometimes they like work that they might have never written themselves. It’s so unique to them that they will choose it. But you can’t control that.

46:13

The good thing is that sometimes there is a magazine that I want to really be published in, because it’s so beautiful, and there’s so much, like it’s a prestigious magazine, and there’s so much happening, that sometimes you aim towards that and your writing keeps getting better. You get excited about the fact, oh, this person is going to read my work in this magazine, so you have to make it better. You will see that difference in your writing, the time that you’ve started to now, and maybe the next one.

46:41

I don’t know if it’s a good thing or not. But if I send something as a submission, and if it doesn’t get published with the magazine that I was hoping that would be chosen with, then I send it to the magazine that I’ve seen, okay, this is a little less difficult. So, I don’t know if that is something that’s a good thing. Because a magazine that’s even bigger, in different ways, can also choose it just because they like it. But sometimes they just start questioning the piece. So, that’s something that people have to think what suits them and what doesn’t, because so many writers will be listening to this. But I think it’s important to keep editing your work.

47:23

For you, if that means that you have to track a certain magazine, or it’s your dream publisher or team producer, then go for it. But if it’s for another person, bettering your writing means something else, or there’s some other motivation. That’s also great. This really works. Because, I always say this, that you have to know your craft and your industry in equal parts, and that will really help. So, know the world that you’re in, and also know yourself. So, you should always be a balance of it.

Rachel Thompson:  47:54

You have some really great insight. Thank you for that.

Yukti Narang:  47:57

Thank you for saying that. But it seems like everybody want to go through different, different phases. You know that it’s important to just think about it every once in a while, especially if you’re an over thinker.

Rachel Thompson:  48:08

Oh, yeah, I’m raising my hand at that.

Yukti Narang:  48:12

Yeah, I’m just saying that it’s a good thing that just know your poems and the process that you’re going through in, keep getting better every day. That’s the goal, just keep getting better every day. Even if you are getting published with the best but it doesn’t loom, right?

Rachel Thompson:  48:28

I’ll jump to our Quick Lit round right now and ask you these questions. I will start the sentence and then ask you to finish it.

48:35

Being a writer is…

Yukti Narang:  48:37

I think being the writer is it’s a dream. It’s a dream come true, because ever since I was a child, I wanted to be a storyteller, that’s for sure. I think being a writer can be so many things. It can sometimes be scary. It can sometimes be harrowing, and it can be extremely fun, or extremely challenging. But at the end of the day, I think you’re happy. You’re getting better every day, you’re getting brilliant. I feel like being a writer is, it’s for the ones that want to be a dream come true. I think you should just every day, work at it and have fun with it.

Rachel Thompson:  49:17

Literary magazines are…

Yukti Narang:  49:19

Literary magazines are extremely important. Everybody that wants to be a writer, it always emerges from a dream and an aim that you set for yourself, maybe at a younger age. Whenever you decide to do it, I think the first thing that they think about is that, oh, okay, I want to publish a book, and I want to do it with this person. But literally magazines are such an important part of literary landscape and writers know that. But I think readers also need to experience that, explore that, and know the fact that as much as we read books, we can also read magazines. It’s a pathway to, of course, the best books that we read, and it’s a pathway to being published. But I feel like as a writer, even when I will be doing bestsellers, or all the awards that I want to win, all the good books that I write, I still want to keep publishing with literary magazines, because they are an equal part of the literary landscape. Also, you get to see so many writers together. Sometimes, like, say, I get published in the magazine, and I read another person’s story based on the same theme. Sometimes I think, oh, wow, I was thinking something else and this person was thinking about something completely different. That’s so beautiful to see. Very, very insightful.

50:42

Literary magazines are definitely a pathway to publishing, but they are not any less than the books that we read. I think if you collect books, please start collecting magazines, also. And anthology, I think they’re very, very important and very good work by emerging writers.

Rachel Thompson:  51:00

That’s music to my ears. Thank you. Then the next question, I often ask editors, but I think all writers would know this too, from thinking of it from both sides is,

51:11

Editing requires…

Yukti Narang:  51:13

Editing requires a lot of patience, and some tears. Because I feel like when I started writing, and especially writers of poetry would relate to this, that poetry doesn’t need a load of editing. In my experience, I’ve seen that. But there are creative nonfiction and fiction that you write that will always need a lot of editing, even if it is a piece that an editor or a magazine has loved. But I’ve gone through it myself. Myself, like, I don’t want to agree with this editor and my piece is being changed. This is not what I wanted. What I feel like, if the end result is that your voice is intact, then editing will always better your work. I have seen it through multiple drafts, that once I read the final piece that I had started writing and that I had submitted to the final publication, it will always look more refined, intact and more interesting. We have to have a lot of patience and trust each other, especially if a writer is not a professional editor themselves. Obviously, we edit our own books every day. But if an editor does it for me, I think I should be patient and thankful. Then obviously not be completely blindsided to the fact that they have my piece. Keep giving insights, but I think it’s extremely important.

52:40

That was a question I have all the time that when I publish individual pieces, it’s still all right, because the editors have it in their hands and they will tell me if it’s correct or not. But when you submit whole manuscripts, or poetry collections to publishers, it becomes so difficult because I still don’t know if I should have gotten it corrected by an editor that would work with me in a freelance situation or whether I should send it directly, how I should go about it. Because editing anyway happens in house. But with the bigger ones, it’s always a question of whether we should do that or not. I think that’s something that you can share.

Rachel Thompson:  53:18

Yeah, I think that’s something that a lot of writers are facing right now, too, because there’s a rise in freelance editing and expectation from publishers too that work comes in, pretty much ready to go. They’re not going to have as much editing work to do too, so that’s really insightful, I think, to think about that choice. Also, I feel like a reflection of what’s happening in the industry.

53:39

There you go, you have that half craft, half industry, and you definitely are nailing it.

Yukti Narang:  53:44

Absolutely, you have to know.

Rachel Thompson:  53:48

My next fill in the blank is,

53:49

Rejection for a writer means…

Yukti Narang:  53:52

Now, I know this. Rejection for the writer means that it is an opportunity for you to grow and become a better writer every day. Sometimes, it means that the piece is absolutely fine. It’s just not resonating with that particular set of people. And sometimes it actually means that your work is just not that good. So, if you can look at it and revise it and see whether it’s ready for publication or not, then it’s really good. I think you have to know yourself. But I have had this shift in me that earlier when people didn’t accept some of my work, or if got some constructive criticism. I would take it a little bit to my heart and I would say okay, this person doesn’t understand my work.

54:39

Now, I feel like okay, I have to better myself to fit that space, and that does not mean changing my voice or the way I write or the characters that is… Stories are absolutely fine. A writer is born with the fact that they will have good stories and good characterization, but the fact that how can you execute those stories is like, from your mind to the paper, that’s such a process and it’s such a journey that I feel like that is important. But always look at what you can do to better yourself rather than blaming the person, because that will never help.

55:16

Today, if I get rejected by a magazine, and tomorrow, if I get published with the same, especially if it’s multiple rejections, then I feel like oh, definitely, I’m getting better. So, always question what you can do. That’s important.

Rachel Thompson:  55:30

Lovely. Then my final fill in the blank is,

55:33

Writing community is…

Yukti Narang:  55:35

Writing community is extremely beautiful, insightful, and a lot of fun. So, all the writers that, I don’t know very many writers, personally. I ask people, whether it’s my own people, friends, or anybody who aren’t in similar industry, I know people who might tell me in some other concept, or whether it’s my personal group. But I have found the writing community, online, a lot, and a lot of that has happened to literally magazines, actually. So, the people I’ve met in that process, or whether it is on social media.

56:18

The writing community is extremely encouraging, I feel, and there is so much to learn from the people that you follow, that you admire. I feel like writing community is very, very insightful, you learn a lot, but at the end of the day, when you get rejected, and the writing community is there. Most of the people that have similar experiences. So, along with all the insight, there will be memes that you read, and you will feel like, okay, this happened to me today or tomorrow, it might not, it’s okay. I can get to it.

56:51

So, whether it’s my own family, or whether it’s me, I understand that I can share things with them, and absolutely my own thoughts, thinking that, okay, you’re doing this way, and I understand it. But somebody who’s a professional writer, who’s doing that every day have something very personal to share.

57:10

One thing I’d like to share, it depends from person to person. But I don’t think I’ve ever felt shy to ask a question to a fellow writer or an editor. Sometimes, if I get a question from somebody who has been an emerging writer I will be very happy to help them. I have asked so many people that I have not even known personally, but probably they were in the same magazine, or they were my editor. If I have any doubt, I’ll just ask them, I’ll call them. I’ll email them and say, okay, please tell me what I should do about this. They will most definitely help you. If you don’t get a response, that’s fine. But if you get one, it will always be personal.

Rachel Thompson:  57:51

Well, I love that. Thank you so much. I feel like we are part of a writing community together. I love your approach to community as well. I’m grateful that you joined the ghosts for the 6.3 community, and that we can share your work. Thank you so much for coming.

Yukti Narang:  58:09

Thank you so much.

Rachel Thompson:  58:10

Is there anything else that you want to add at this time?

Yukti Narang:  58:15

I’d just like to add that I just feel happy that every day I get to be a storyteller, and a writer. It’s incredible. I think a lot of people will agree that, let’s say I have someone to share my everyday stories, when it’s my idea who somebody is in the similar industry, and who’s a storyteller themselves, that’s great. But if you by any chance need to find that community, I think contacting each other is very, very important. Also one more thing that when you submit to magazines, submission guidelines are very, very important. I make sure that I read those because one thing I treasure with me that people have really liked my work, and they were expecting work from a particular country, and I did not read that. That’s the only reason that it didn’t happen. So, that feels bad.

59:06

But it’s important just to send work to the most appropriate places, and just have fun with being just a writer. It’s amazing. I’m just happy to see that when you submit, like you see different names every day, and tomorrow you read their name on a book, [sysco 59:34] automatically read that name again being published with you and you see them close together. It’s so nice. Even in Room, I have names that I have known like Manahil and her work from before.

Rachel Thompson:  59:37

Yes. Oh, I love that.

Yukti Narang:  59:39

Share that space with that person. You feel like oh, I’m getting published with this person that means that I might be good. So that happens every once in a while. You get that validation every day till you understand that okay, I am a good writer and you keep getting better every day.

Rachel Thompson:  59:55

Lovely. Thank you so much.

59:58

So that was Yukti Narang on publishing with Room, writing and submitting. I loved, loved, loved speaking with both Yukti Narang and Jennifer Cox, which was the first time I’d talked to either of them, which may or may not surprise you, since when we’re editing it’s very fast communication, usually asking about changes and edits and then showing proofs for correction to the writers. We’re juggling a lot and cannot, unfortunately, or at least I can’t, slow down and connect individually as much as maybe we’d like to. So this was just a wonderful experience to get to hear from them both about their practices and hear a bit about how they came to be in my Submittable box, so that I was able to select their work along with my colleague, Ellen Chang Richardson, we did the selections, and then published them in Room.

1:00:45

I think one thing they both had in common, apart from submitting to the issue, was the seriousness of their approaches to journals. They have systems for both submitting and thinking about the responses that come back to them. It’s really important when you’re emerging as a writer and want to publish in lit mags to have a plan because it’s a lot of work and takes a lot of focus, self-trust, and care.

1:01:07

So that was our first of a whole month of episodes about Room magazine, Ghosts, issue 46.3, this October, as of this recording. So, this seemed like the right month to do this if we’re going to talk about ghosts and haunting. This is currently on newsstands near you if you have newsstands near you and if you’re listening to this when the episode comes out, and t’s also online for order in print and digital at roommagazine.com.

1:01:35

In upcoming episodes, you’ll hear from more of the many, many writers, artists, and staff involved in the creation of this issue. And that won’t even be the half of all the people involved, by the way, not even probably be a third. It really takes a village. So stay tuned for our next episode to haunt you, in this spooky month when I’m talking all about our spooky issue, Ghosts.

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Do you crave support and structure so you can write your most luminous work?

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The Write, Publish and Shine Intensive start soon. Write, revise and publish your luminous writing with lots of support from me.

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You can learn more and register at rachelthompson.co/intensive.

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The Write, Publish, and Shine podcast is brought to you by me, Rachel Thompson. You can learn more about the work I do to help writers, write, publish, and shine at rachelthompson.co. When you’re there, sign up for my Writerly Love letters, sent every week and filled with support for your writing practice.⁠

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If this episode encouraged you to haunt some lit mags I would love to hear all about it. You can always email me at hello@rachelthompson.co

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And tell other luminous writers about this episode. You can do this by sending them to the podcast at rachelthompson.co/podcast or searching for Write, Publish, and Shine wherever they get their podcasts.

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Thank you for listening—I encourage you to keep writing and submitting your luminous—maybe scary, haunting—work!

Rachel Thompson:  1:03:00

Jennifer Cox spoke to me from Ottawa, ON, on un-ceded Anishinabe Algonquin territory.

Rachel Thompson:  1:03:06

And I am a guest in the South Sinai, Egypt, on lands historically and presently occupied by the el Muzzina Bedouin.